Nursery want him to see educational psychologist?

[TitWillow]

I'll keep this a short as I can!

DS is four, and has been at nursery for the past year. He is a very chatty, bright boy at home, his vocabulary is great, he is beginning to understand reading, knows all his numbers colours, has an incredible memory. He is also very, very stubborn, and a total drama queen, but can be teased out of it.

The nursery raised concerns about him last year, and are now doing it again. When he is there, he is very quiet, and doesn't play with others, preferring to play alongside, doing his own thing. They say he "zones out" and he is frightened by too much noise or too much happening all at once (sports day in the school hall was a nightmare)

They want us to refer him to an educational psychologist. They won't say exactly what it is they think, but my impression is that they think that there is a diagnosis needed, and that there is something wrong with him.

The way I see it is, that he has never been that interested in other children, but is perfectly sociable with adults that he knows, and his cousins when they come here. He plays with his little sister, they are very close, and play together a lot (she is 2) He understands sharing, he understands other peoples emotions, he checks out how people are responding to him.
The zoning out thing - I do it, my father does it. When we are concentrating, we completely block out the rest of the world and don't hear anything. Its actually very useful. Also my DS is clever, and as I have said stubborn, and has worked out that if you pretend you haven't heard an instruction, you can ignore it. He does it at home, and when you call him on it, he giggles, so we know it is deliberate.
He is timid, not sure about new things, and not physically brave, but then neither am I.

The nursery are being quite pushy about this, and say that if we do not act now it will damage his education. I feel like they are trying to label him for being a bit different. I alternate from worrying that something is really wrong, to being angry that they are spoiling my enjoyment of his childhood by making me anxious. I don't want him labelled unless it will carry a benefit for him. I think he's just not very sociable. Its a family trait.

WWYD?

(thanks, sorry its so long!)

no harm in having him assessed for peace of mind, if there are no issues you will be told that, and if there are any you can get support with them, IMO :)

And I wouldn't worry about labels being handed out willynilly as it is VERY hard to get a diagnosis.

Yes, just have him assessed for your peace of mind, or you may always have a niggling doubt. It's not a diagnosis it's just an assessment. And if there are any issues they can put some strategies in place to help him I interact a bit more
He won't be labelled or diagnosed, the assessment will just give you their view
It's up to you what you do with it after that, take it further or not

I would, because otherwise you will get this constantly if he is "zoning out" when it is very noisy as that is a bit of a red flag for ASD (even if you are sure it's just because he is concentrating, school will keep picking up on it!), as well.

I would want to know what the psychologist says. Even if I think my child is normal. It would bug me. I don't see any harm jn seeing one. Specially of he is exceptionally bright, I would want to know how I can help him. But I do see why you are worried. Wish you luck.

Presumably if he is struggling at nursery he will struggle at school too - so unless you plan to educate him entirely at home then getting some help for him (if he needs it) in a school/nursery situation is a good thing?

I think you should try not to concentrate on how it makes you feel, and think about whether it could be beneficial for your ds.

We had this exact scenario 2 year ago.

My DS was assessed by the EP and it was determined that whilst there was no required diagnosis he needed a bit of extra support when it came to team activities and concentration issues.

He us now in primary 2 and fins it much easier to deal with these types if situations but he has access to support if he needs it.

just go with it, if there's nothing then you've supported then in there thoughts but if there us a diagnosis or even just some support issues they can help and start to build a network to help you and your DS!

I would take them up on the offer.

If there are no problems the Ed Psych will be able to confirm this. If there is a problem then you'll be able to find out now and have time to set up any help he might need as he moves into primary school.

The visit is usually fairly straightforward. The Ed Psych will observe your ds for a while, and maybe do some simple tests with him. You will probably be invited too, and be able to speak to them about any findings.

He sounds just like my DD, aged almost 6. At nursery they just commented that she likes her own company, but school have referred her to the Ed Psych. and we have our first meeting next week. She has started to play more with the other children but still often chooses to play alone. I'll be very interested to hear what the psychologist says. School are also concerned about her physical development because she is very cautious but she has made loads of progress in this area recently.

Thanks for the replies. The general consensus appears to be that we should get him assessed!

I didn't mean to focus on how I feel, but maybe I need to go and have a think about why I feel so negative about having him assessed. I suppose I am just very resistant to the idea that something is "wrong" with my PFB! DH and my DF are both very resistant which doesn't help -both work/worked in education.

DS seems happy, both at home and at nursery - he isn't distressed by going, and says that he has fun. if I thought he was unhappy I would do something . When he first started at the nursery they made some comment within half an hour of meeting him, about being surprised that he wasn't attending speech therapy, so we took him for assessment, and there was absolutely no issue with his speech.

An EP doesn't give a diagnosis (Except maybe dyslexia - not sure) their role is to see if they can make suggestions to a school/nursery to help a child out in that setting. So if it is a problem for the nursery that your child is zoning out and not concentrating, then they could make a recommendation to the nursery who to handle it.
If he is struggling with too much noise - that could be a big problem in school, they can make the recommendation, for example, that the child can eat their lunch on their own in a quiet room. They wouldn't be qualified to say "This child has a diagnosis of sensory processing disorder". They could suggest if they think the child needs a diagnosis of some sort, who to look to, to make that decision.

Thanks, that is reassuring.

I have been having a think about this, and I think the issue is that his older brother, my DSS, who is much older, had problems at school, and we have been through all this before. However, his problems were much worse - he didn't speak at all until he was three, and was massively unsociable, and later developed epilepsy. Once he was diagnosed with that, that was it, parents of other children wouldn't have him round to play, he wouldn't be invited to parties etc, I suppose it was because they were scared he would fit, but it was hard on him, and we all felt that the community was judging us, (it was that kind of little town) He is now fine, he isn't the most sociable of young men, but he is fine. And now they are saying something is wrong with DS, who seems to us to be much more able than DSS was, and I am worried that a label will damage his childhood the way it did DSS's.

I think I'm going to go in and speak to them, it was DH they spoke to, and as the nursery teacher is fairly patronising, he got fairly defensive. I'm going to ask them exactly how they feel it would benefit him, given that the problems they have do not fit with the boy we have at home.

Thanks for the advice, I think I needed the space to talk about this with people who are not defensive! Family are great, but they are all too close to this, and defensive.

You are a LONG way from any kind of label and any hint that a parent is not on board will ensure you don't get one anyway.

Most parents woukd love a detailed analysis of their child's strengths and weaknesses so why not go along with it with the purpose of using the information to nurture talents and fill gaps.

Do you think I'm being silly, Starlight ?

Maybe I am.

Its just that the boy they describe is so unlike the boy I know.

Yes it's a shock when you realise how differently they can behave at nursery/school/elsewhere compared with their comfortable and secure home environment. That's a massive compliment to how you've made him feel at home if it is the case btw.

Re labels in the community - if a child does have some sort of diagnosis or extra support, there is no reason why anybody else should know unless they are a professional involved in his education.

Try not to be anxious and see it as ensuring your boy has everything he needs for the greatest access possible to his education. By the sounds of it, it would only be a few little tweaks to make HIM feel as comfortable as possible.

Much better to have it checked than for people to ignore and assume he's fine, then find out years later that he's been managing to hide weak areas that have grown because he's so good at 'zoning out'. There seem to be more than enough professionals who let this happen ime.

No, I don't think you are being silly. You have valid reasons for considering the road ahead, but I suppose you just ought to know that even if your child DID have difficulties, you would barely be on any road at all until you, as the parent, begin the fight of your life and invest a number of years in it.

That is why, as scary as it might sound, an 'assessment' is NOT going to send you spiralling out of control, and why you really ought to agree to it just to give yourself a better understanding of what it is the setting are worried about.

I would cautiously move forward with what they are suggesting but - with some buts. I say this as a) a teacher and b) parent of child who has been assessed. My DD is very cautious, like your son. She had anxiety issues, including problems with transitions and noise amongst other things. She also prefers the company of adults and reluctant to try new things where she thinks she may fail. DD tested as gifted and also very, very anxious with some sensory issues. So an assessment helped us.

Firstly I would ask to see copies of any and all documents the school are preparing and sending. All of them. It is your right as his parent. Find out what if anything you will be asked to submit.

Secondly I would want to know who the psychologist is they are referring DS to, and what is their area of expertise - are they an educational psychologist, a child psychologist etc. How well qualified are they and how much trust do you have in them? How long have they been qualified!

Third, what types of assessments will the psychologist do and will they also do some observations. How many sessions will it be completed in. Will the psychologist base their report purely on administering some tests or will they interview you to gain a detailed history.

Fourth, who will be given copies of the report. Will it come to you with it being passed on at your discretion or will the school get a copy too. In other words, who will own the document. Who will have control of when and where it gets passed and will you have any say in or notification of this. This is important - do you want an assessment of him at 4 years of age following him when he is 14? Maybe, maybe not.

Go along with it. My DD prefers playing on her own and struggles to play with peers her own age. She was referred to an ed psych and we discovered she was exceptionally bright (top 0.01%) so she now has a statement, and a mix of a TA when she is taught in her own year and some lessons 2 years ahead. She is coming on leaps and bounds. None of that would have happened without the ed psych report

Perhaps it might help you to think that there is something 'wrong' with every child. Whether its educational, emotional, social -

Your nursery are noticing something 'social' about your child, when you are not there. Like other posters have said, it need not be anything too worrying, just some extra pointers. Your child may benefit from this help. They sound like a switched on nursery, which is fab.

In terms of your older child, I am so sorry to hear his epilepsy affected his friendships etc - but classes differ don't they? Some classes (parents and children) are extremely kind and inclusive and some classes are not. Try not to worry ahead with you little one - you don't know who he will be in school with yet and I have found my children's classes all so different.

I would get the assessment - then you will know and it could be helpful for him - especially if there really is a problem that can be identified and be allowed for/helped (for example my DS was given extra exam time for a dyspraxia diag, which got him better grades). Annoying that the staff aren't telling you what they are concerned about, though. However it does seem that kids are meant to all be the 'same' and fit society's norms etc. Sometimes boys are expected to be boisterous, active and sociable when they are not like that at all - they are sensitive, quiet, imaginative, thoughtful, like being alone etc. Your DS sounds like my nephew, who was permanently zoned out throughout his school life, which greatly irritated teaching staff. It turned out that school in general just didn't suit him - at all, which was not great at the time, but now he's a gorgeous, happy 20-something with a great life/job etc.

I can see now why you are a little unwilling, given the issue and attitudes towards your older son
However, this is different, in that he doesn't have the same issues
Maybe your previous experience is clouding your judgement a bit, but you are certainly not being silly
It's just that an assessment really is just that, with informal recommendations if they are required. It's really up to you whether you take it on board or not
It may be just some strategies, games etc designed to help him interact more. Or exercises with the staff to do some one to one with him
If you are worried about the wider community make sure the nursery are aware that this is confidential and should be kept as such
My DS was similar (worse if anything)and I had him assessed at 3 on the advice of family, but it turns out he was fine, just needed a few strategies in place to coax him into conversation, as his sibling didn't let him get a word in edge ways!!
I don't think it's recorded formally anywhere, except maybe in closed nursery records

Thanks all, I'm feeling a bit better about it thanks to your great advice. I went this afternoon to speak to the teacher and get a clearer picture of their concerns, but also to give her a better picture of who he is, why I think he might be struggling.

I'm going t speak to DH, and suggest we go for it. Adoptmama, I'll keep your advice in mind.

Thanks again, you've given me some perspective, and some new ways of looking at this.

Hi. I would also record him at home interacting with his cousins and others. I think it would help them see him in a different light as they only see the behaviour at nursery.

Good idea, I will try that.

Thanks

Just wanted to say what a fantastic thread this is. I am sure TitWillow must already be feeling reassured by the kind, considered and sensible responses to her post. Mumsnet at its best!