Worried Dear Nephew is too rough and my DS shouldn't have to put up with it

[somewherebecomingrain]

DN is now 4.5. He didn't smile much and made very prolonged eye contact as a baby. He spoke extremely early. He is super-brainy but has a slightly aloof quality. He is really into violent language which i've seen elsewhere on mumsnet is normal at that age (thank god for mumsnet)- killing, cutting heads off etc.

DN has ALWAYS done a lot of hitting of my DS (3.5). My beloved sister says it's just a phase but he's done it since my DS was 6 months and he somehow managed to do something to his willy while he was being changed and make him cry.

Both boys are physically a bit wimpish but in opposite ways - DN is strong with thick limbs but can barely bring himself to run. DS runs like crazy but isn't strong, has skinny limbs.

Personalities are opposite though. DN is super-articulate, able to discuss matters more like a much older child or even eerily sometimes like an adult. He is very involved with certain TV series and characters. He loves monster-type toys. He's very very moody - when he's in a good mood (about 30% of the time I'd say) he's sweet, but when he's in a bad mood he hits and just gives off awful vibes. He gets very overwhelmed by big parties and very, very jealous of other people's presents.

DS has been slow to speak although not behind. his conversation is largely describing what he's doing at that moment, or repeating what you've just said. He is extrovert, skipping along to join in anything he sees. He's generally in a good mood. He's huggy and benign, he literally says 'hello trees hello flowers' type stuff.

One unfortunate thing - he has a low pain threshold like his dad. I'm not sure DN hits very hard, but DS feels it.

DS LOVES DN. But DN is in my opinion being a proto-bully. He hits DS and sort of treats him like he has the plague which just guts me. I have to say DS is fairly resilient. I'm not sure he notices any of it except the physical stuff, and he gets outraged rather than slinking away. But I worry he's getting wound up and that this is a damaging experience for him.

In my darkest moments I think DN may have anti-social tendencies. He doesn't seem to care about right and wrong, just what the reward and punishment are. This is not helped by my genuinely beloved sister who uses this a lot to manage him. I'm not sure if she's responding to him or he's responding to her - I suspect a bit of both. She doesn't really manage the hitting and so I am often telling off DN - and usually resorting to threatened punishment (we'll leave if you do it again) as that seems to work best.

If I didn't have DS I'd find DN intriguing, fascinating, entertaining. But I do have DS and actually DN really upsets me.

My sister and i spend a lot of time together but I'm finding it increasingly hard.

AIBU?

Anyone else in a similar situation?

What a lovely way to describe a young child.

I just read the title and first 4 words of your post and disgusted you would refere to 4 year old as psycho .

just wanted to let you know that before i read the rest.

Are you serious? It's the law of the jungle. Older child relatives are always somewhat dismissive and even scornful of the younger one. My ds has 3 older cousins and 3 younger. He adores the older ones, who barely give him the time of day. The younger ones adore him and he has little interest in them as he wants to play with the older ones.

Of course your DN is more articulate etc, he is a year older than your son! He is also still quite young. At his age, life is very much about the present and consequences are often reward-punishment based as theory of mind e.g. thinking about other people and what they think of you is not very developed.

Honestly. You will be flamed on high for how you have described your DN here.

I would also suggest you read a little bit about child development and reassess how you describe young children. Psycho indeed! Get that hard hat on.

Ok, the others have already said what I was thinking, so moving on.

What do you want to achieve? Do you want DN and DS still to see each other or to break contact?

If you take the route of maintaining the friendship you need to teach your DS how to cope. He needs to toughen up and see the difference between play fights and bullying and be able to tell DN and you when it is bullying and to let it go or join in if it's play.

Kids have different topics of conversation, you can't stop it unless it is racist sexist or too violent.

How you think about your DN will rub off on your DS, hopefully you never call DN by the name you used on MN in RL, Check your language and body posture when you are near DN, he might be reacting to that

of course he is anti social most 4 year olds are .

I think you are being very harsh and unfair towards your dn. You describe him a bit like you feel he is making a conciouse effort to bully your ds and put him through sustained tourture, when actually what you are describing is a normal but difficult cousin relationship that should be managed by the adults.

Also i feel your expectations of dn are very high and I get this in the way you give a lot of back ground about him as a baby. I dont see anything you describe as unusaul or indicators of him having mental health issues, if that is what you where angling at?

how on earth did dn get the oppertunity to hurt your ds penis whilst he was being changed by an adult?

I understand you'r difficulty as my dn is very impulsive and has in the past hurt my dd and lashed out, however it just takes constant supervision and the adults to manage the behaviour. However things often became very stressfull for my dsis.

Have you spoken to your dsis about it as I also wonder if she is picking up on your concerns and getting flustered when dealing with him when you are around. as you say she uses punishment and reward and they are both reacting to each other i sence there is possibly an eliment of stress in this.

I think you need to remember he is a child and give your dsis some support here without judging her or your dn

From the thread title I thought you'd be describing a knife-brandishing 20-something.
Agree with thunk.

of course he is anti social most 4 year olds are...what you are describing is a normal but difficult cousin relationship that should be managed by the adults.

^ This exactly. I'm not sure what else I can say to offer you help.

oh my god of course i never call him that in real life. Don't be idiotic. i'm extremely careful with my DN and his feelings and regularly babysit him and have held him in my arms while he cries for his mum.
i don't think any of you get it at all.
i've asked for this thread to be taken down.
thanks for the support - NOT

we're a very close family and i'm just trying to understand what's going on. isn't mumsnet where you're supposed to be able to say what you feel? read my f---ing post and you'll see i'm not some monster

I see i've attracted some enthusiastic trolls, basically. fair enough, i should have known better.
apols to you - and if you are sincerely worried, you might like to know I do love my DN. So much so i've got him a present on his sister's birthday to stop him getting upset! But people are strange and varied - kids too.

Op you have had some good advice here, i think you made the mistake of how you described him, this has been pointed out but posters have seen past this also and you have been given good advice on 4 out of 10 posts seems fair to me.

Yes mn is a place to come for support but you need to read and take on board that support not just ask for thrtead to be pulled because you dont agree on that advice.

I think the op came across as someone who loves her dn but is worried about a few things

Don't get in a huff op, give it time and you may get some different answers. Everyone will have their own opinion about your post just try to listen to it all and see what you can take from it.

Have you spoken to your sis about how you feel? If you're that close you should be able to I guess?

i'm not asking it to be pulled because i don't agree with the advice
the advice is actually pretty good though it pains me to say it
it's the tone of judgement. you simply don't know enough to talk to me like that.
having said that i was naive to think psycho would be taken lightly. I apologise to all concerned for that.

"Enthusiastic trolls"

how did I talk to you?

Genuine question, have you read many threads on MN? Are you new?

I think other posters do 'get it' op, because they're saying it's normal child behaviour that doesn't make them trolls

You do seem to be having a major over reaction to people giving you helpful advice, what did you want from this post?

I agree with the others that this seems like normal behaviour, but if it worries you that much then just keep your son away from your dn, it's as simple as that

thankyou mrsrhett some sanity.

yes we have talked and she gets very angry (which is unusual) and defends her son - who is vulnerable i think (parents split up). she's actually vulnerable too. so it's tricky.

reading mumnset has already helped as i can see that he's not that extreme.
some of it is just personality clash - my ds is so open and straightforward, dn does have this aloof calculating quality. Doesn't make him a bad person but it is unnerving. he is so clever he can 'play' you - even adults.

i think the advice, despite the horrible way it has been dispensed, is good advice - normal cousinly relationships which need to be managed.

and dn is also incredibly witty and he is loving - just not as obviously as my ds.

I have some baggage which makes me worry - wont' go into it here - but it's actually reassuring despite your horrendous judgementalness.

@ enthusiastic trolls!

maytheodds, we're a close family - my sis is my best friend. I'm not an idiot you know guys!

mrsrhett i'm on one other thread which is super-supportive. I realise I have been naive.

dangerous - comments like 'I just read the title and first 4 words of your post and disgusted'

now ive calmed down i would like to apologise for using the word psycho again.

also i have asked for this to be pulled so it should disappear soon

Oh my goodness! Loads of good advice here, based on what you have said OP. People have understandably been a little about the inadvisable use of pyscho to describe a 4 year old child, but you have apologised for that. Other than that you have been given excellent advice and perhaps it would be a good idea for you to learn that support does not necessarily mean blindly agreeing with 100% of what you say; instead it should mean to give you advice and guidance on how you can make a situation better.

When I read your OP, I was just reminded of how different children are. Everything you have said just describes two very different children. Just that.

Speak to your sister if you are concerned, but God help you & your DS if you carry on being this sensitive to stuff in RL. You do need to toughen up, and I mean that in the nicest possible way

Well if your sister is your best friend does she know you think her son is a 'psycho'? Have you discussed things with her?

Look, only you know how bad the situation is, I do think it sounds normal but if you are genuinely worried about your son then your first priority is to protect him. You only really have two options, talk to your sister and try and sort something out or keep your son away from him

Look, I'll admit sometimes the word "psycho" has been used between me and DP to describe a child who has hurt our child. It's not nice or right but it's shorthand when you're upset.

However you must realise that a) it's normal for children this age to do this stuff and b) even if it's not normal there are many types of special needs that can cause it and saying "psycho" on here is going to upset a lot of parents. You're not helping yourself by getting shitty about it.

Having said that, there are children who are very difficult to be around, for whatever reason, and I don't think it's wrong to want to protect your child. But I would see it that way - this is about keeping your child, who is still only tiny, reasonable safe and protected from bullying. Stop worrying about what may be going on with your DN - your sister won't like it and anyway, if he has some kind of special need or condition, it will almost certainly be picked up soon.

Just keep an eye on them and if there's a problem, scoop up your DS and say "DN it's not OK to do x/y/z, that hurts, I will take DS over here and read him a book" or whatever. Your DN gets the calm, clear message that some behaviours are not on and will result in him being interrupted and DS getting all the attention. Also remember to praise DN whenever he is nice and kind.

As time goes on remember you are not obliged to expose DS to the bad behaviour if it's really serious. Close family or not!