Worried Dear Nephew is too rough and my DS shouldn't have to put up with it

[somewherebecomingrain]

DN is now 4.5. He didn't smile much and made very prolonged eye contact as a baby. He spoke extremely early. He is super-brainy but has a slightly aloof quality. He is really into violent language which i've seen elsewhere on mumsnet is normal at that age (thank god for mumsnet)- killing, cutting heads off etc.

DN has ALWAYS done a lot of hitting of my DS (3.5). My beloved sister says it's just a phase but he's done it since my DS was 6 months and he somehow managed to do something to his willy while he was being changed and make him cry.

Both boys are physically a bit wimpish but in opposite ways - DN is strong with thick limbs but can barely bring himself to run. DS runs like crazy but isn't strong, has skinny limbs.

Personalities are opposite though. DN is super-articulate, able to discuss matters more like a much older child or even eerily sometimes like an adult. He is very involved with certain TV series and characters. He loves monster-type toys. He's very very moody - when he's in a good mood (about 30% of the time I'd say) he's sweet, but when he's in a bad mood he hits and just gives off awful vibes. He gets very overwhelmed by big parties and very, very jealous of other people's presents.

DS has been slow to speak although not behind. his conversation is largely describing what he's doing at that moment, or repeating what you've just said. He is extrovert, skipping along to join in anything he sees. He's generally in a good mood. He's huggy and benign, he literally says 'hello trees hello flowers' type stuff.

One unfortunate thing - he has a low pain threshold like his dad. I'm not sure DN hits very hard, but DS feels it.

DS LOVES DN. But DN is in my opinion being a proto-bully. He hits DS and sort of treats him like he has the plague which just guts me. I have to say DS is fairly resilient. I'm not sure he notices any of it except the physical stuff, and he gets outraged rather than slinking away. But I worry he's getting wound up and that this is a damaging experience for him.

In my darkest moments I think DN may have anti-social tendencies. He doesn't seem to care about right and wrong, just what the reward and punishment are. This is not helped by my genuinely beloved sister who uses this a lot to manage him. I'm not sure if she's responding to him or he's responding to her - I suspect a bit of both. She doesn't really manage the hitting and so I am often telling off DN - and usually resorting to threatened punishment (we'll leave if you do it again) as that seems to work best.

If I didn't have DS I'd find DN intriguing, fascinating, entertaining. But I do have DS and actually DN really upsets me.

My sister and i spend a lot of time together but I'm finding it increasingly hard.

AIBU?

Anyone else in a similar situation?

oh yes Begonia my dd does that all time, but if you take a quick glance at her you can see the thought proccess that actually she is bothered. I think it is also important to use a consistent approach as especially with clever child it is so easy to get into a battle of witts.

OP your description was very articulate and I can tell you're a decent person.

I thik you used the term flippantly and that was all. Your N sounds intense and bright whilst your DS sounds cheerful and normal...so it WILL cause some problems when they are tgether.

You'll ned o speak to your sis about the hitting though.

There's also something else I would say about this - are you sure you're being totally honest with yourself about your feelings about your sister? You seem to overemphasise that she is "beloved" and your best mate etc. But people who are vulnerable, maybe a bit needy, and who don't take an adult role when they should, can be emotionally exhausting and draining. Perhaps you feel some resentment towards her that you don't want to really admit.

I might be out of line, I'll totally accept that if so. It just rang a bell because I have always been the "responsible one" and mother figure to my unhappy sister and tried for years to convince myself we were "best mates". Actually I find her extremely difficult, but my overdeveloped sense of responsibility made it hard to admit that.

yes begonia you're probably right. i have a bit of baggage that might make me irrational.
i never expected thispost to turn out this way. I have to get back to work but if this is taken down before i have another look i'd just like to say thanks, it's been very helpful at the end of the day, and apologies again
xxx

Not irrational at all. I just mean that if you actually feel frustrated with her and could admit that to yourself, DN's actions/personality might seem less threatening and might not loom so large for you.

I think you've done brilliantly on this thread to take it all on the chin and stick around.

oh crikey sucked back in by perceptive posts
begonia there is baggage - a third sister. and i think me and Dsis need to seperate a bit.
Maryz i am so moved by this - and you have really made me think. i definitely think my sis is like you just a bit desperate cause he's a tricky chap.
maybe you can get an idea of what your SIL feels by reading my posts? It might help as a way to talk. But she does sound very closed - my warmest wishes to you with it all. it's definitely not all about how you parent IMHO - children have fixed qualities too. (it's an interaction and of course you cna be a better nad worse parent but some kids just are more challenging).
xxx

i am frustrated with her. she's a stick-head-in-sand merchant whereas i like to find out what the problem is. she's also truly tremendous.
think i'm going to use the 'it's not that there's antyhing wrong, it's just that it upsets me so can we focus on it a bit more' tactic.
xx

begonia - interesting you get it and you have the sister dyamic! it is a lot about this too. i hope you are in a good place with your sister.

OP, you've had a lot of good advice already.

I just wanted to add that I have experienced something similar in reverse where my 3.5yo DS is the older cousin and, inevitably, in the rough and tumble of play, my DNiece has been hurt a few times (nothing too serious but a few pushes and snatched toys etc). Obviously I deal with DS pdq and he is getting better at sharing etc gradually with age.

BUT, my DN's parent - who are wonderful - exacerbated things to some extent by whisking DN off for cuddles or a treat every time something happened. Of course, she pretty quickly grasped that by howling, her parents would come running and she would get the toy she wanted or a a treat etc. And, that she could even howl when she was at fault and still get the same response. Thankfully her parents cottoned on and modified their approach without me getting involved.

I just wanted to mention this because you mentioned your DS's low pain threshold and I wondered if something similar might be happening? Is it possible that your DS is picking up that you will always take his side and assume the worst of DN?

Well... not really! I told her I couldn't handle her neediness and I upset her a lot. I'm not recommending that and anyway she doesn't have DC so it's less complex in that sense. However, I have put my needs first for once and I'm having a blissful break from her antics. I suspect I klet it go too far before I saud anything. If you do get on with yours, you might be able to manage it all much more gently.

When my nephew (also incredibly clever and articulate) was six, he used to greet me with: "I hate you! I hate you!", followed by vigorous kicks to my arse. Once I hid after going to visit him because I was crying. My sister didn't want me to tell him off. His parents had just split up, and I didn't have kids yet, and thought he was insane.
18 years on, he is the sweetest, kindest, funniest most interesting person.

scroobius and claraschu great stuff

well done begonia - 'antics' that sounds like my third sister who really is impossible. that's an understatement. essential to put yourself first sometimes.
i wish this post wasnt' being taken down now.
i have got to go bakc to work or would respond in much more detail.
my original plan was to start another similar one a bit mellower(avoiding tactless words) and i'll probably do that so maybe see you there.

i don't know how long this will be up for but will check back in later

I can't add a lot to this, but my own DNiece and DD have a very weird dynamic (they are also 3 and 2 respectively)

When they're apart, they chat about each other constantly, refer to the other as their best friend and pretend to call each other on the phone all the time.
When they're together, DNiece wastes no time in tattling (my prejudicial word, I know) about DD doing anything at all (such as walking across the room), usually with a 'you have to tell her off NOW because she's a really bad girl'; pushing DD over and generally pulling rank. DD, for her part, says absolutely nothing to her cousin apart from 'That's not nice!' and refuses any interaction at all beyond that. The ILs also seem to think they're ideal playmates which is a whole new story

Once they get home, after hours of tears, tattling and sulking, they're talking nineteen to the dozen about how nice it was to see the other one. I think it's an age thing. Do support your DS and mention to your sister that the rough play is upsetting him so you'll step in when needed, but it might well pass.

that's really interesting festivalwidow. And pretty baffling.

I am thinking really differently after this thread. there's stuff that goes on between children that we just can't understand or control. What are your DN and DD up to eh?

My head is spinning with all the advice. Need to process it.

You can "report" your post and ask for it to be left.

I've reported it and asked it to be closed. it hasn't yet
x

have they emailed yopu OP as I would bet they say they dont usualy take threads down for the reason you have requested.

I would keep it up anyway OP I think you have handled your self very well on the tread and I think others have also respected that. Hopefully someon will this thread and learn a thing or two from it.

oh and by the way I just had to steal the enthusastic troll for my new nn I think it is great .

Not had this experience (fortunately - as I think I would be told to toughen up until the advisers were blue in the face), but thinking about it I would try to be as clear, direct and unequivocal as possible in terms of telling the older child about what he is doing in terms of the psychological aspects (probably not the physical ones as he will know that that hurts). Something like: 'When you ignore DS and deliberately don't talk to him, you really hurt his feelings. You are older than him and old enough to know that that is not kind behaviour.' However, as others have said, be aware that he should be able to have a say in whether he wants your DS's company or not, and that children of his age can be very direct about that too if they feel they are having company, or other things they don't much like, forced upon them!

Rindercella - "unless your DN is called Kevin..." [Grin] Kardashian? great book, but probably not for the OP to read at this time!

*Katchadourian. Been a few years!

bloody hell was just responding and DS has wiped it.

Divinyl good advice - kids just don't protect each others feelings in the way we do as adults. also, some kids are more advanced at kindness just as some are more advanced at speech but they can all become kinder as they develop.

enthusiastictroll you're welcome. At the time I wanted to say bunch of f-g trolls but i thought that would make me seem even more like the person they had decided I was, so I said enthusiastic instead!!!

is it possible to have mor than one nickname?

also i wish they would take it down - i just feel paranoid my sis will see it now, though i don't think she reads mumsnet

mmerangue have read Kevin!

This has been extraordinary - a sort of crowd-therapy, actually quite frightening but I have learned tons.

If he is an only child and your dsis has split from her partner the chances are he is the centre of the universe. If I were you when the hitting starts lift your son and actually take him home. Tell your dsis that it's getting out of hand and upsetting your son and yourself. Your dsis needs to start disciplining him properly and if she won't, show you mean business. If DN is that clever he'll work out pretty quickly that you're annoyed and all his fun has gone.

I do this when ds (nearly 4) and his cousin are playing. He has got to that age where he has developed opinions of his own and dneice is obviously not happy not being able to boss him around anymore and she can be very mean. If it goes too far I just take ds and leave letting whichever one of them was being horrible know whose fault it is. Seems to work as now I just have to threaten and they think I mean it.

Maybe ask for the title to be changed?