nearly 5yr old mealtime nightmares - advice please!

[nieveandarlo]

Hi all,
I'm looking for some ideas, advice, energy to keep going etc...

My nearly 5yr old DD has got into an awful habit of being really difficult at mealtimes. She plays around, says she isn't hungry (when she really must be), takes forever to eat, chews one mouthful for around 15 minutes and is really easily distracted. Even if the meal is something she loves she can't help herself but to mess around. Every meal ends up with me and DH sitting there (having finished our meals ages ago) trying to coax her into eating a reasonable amount of food. We've tried the "ok no desert", the "fine we'll just take the plate away", the "we'll just leave you at the table to eat"... I'm at a loss and it's got to the point where we end up irate and her in a strop.
She has never been a huge eater and i've heard it said that girls can be major manipulators when it comes to food, but as her mum i can't bear not to make her eat at least a bit, and i hate that mealtimes can't be a nice peaceful family time.
She has had a hard time recently (as have i!!) with her new baby brother (now 7 months) on the scene who obviously has taken my attention, time and energy and i completely understand that we need to be patient with her and try to let her know she's still loved etc but the 'mealtime nightmares' have been going on for a lot longer than DS has been around. I do think it's got worse (along with minor behaviour issues - being cheeky, tantrums, not doing what she's told) but i need to find a way to put a halt to it.

I guess i'm at the end of my tether now because of being tired and a bit overwhelmed by 2!

Anyone got any ideas or been in the same situation? Should i give the sticker reward chart thing a go? Or try again taking her plate away when she says she doesn't want it?

Many thanks in advance...

DS (now 7) often is and has been fuzzy which hasn't caused me not too much worry really.

We all eat together and I like to cook a good variety of meals and they either eat it or not - end of!

There are a few things DS/DD don't like and I try to keep them separate, e.g. I cut peppers and mushrooms large so they can just put them to one side and if its some sauce I don't pour it over rice/pasta or veg so there is always enough they can eat. Occasionally I ask them to try something new or something they haven't eaten/liked for some time.

DD (3.5) sometimes doesn't eat much all day and is still not hungry in the evening, so it's not for me to say how much she eats. However, if she wants a dessert other than fruit I ask her to eat all the veg on her plate.

Sorry to hijack here, but my 19 month old DD often needs cajooling into eating, particularly dinner, or else she would simply not eat it (I have tried, believe you me).

But at what age is it appropriate to just take the plate away if they don't eat? I really don't want to be faced with night wakenings due to hunger!

fryscream - my dd3 is 2 and I don't cajole, but I do feed her when she doesn't do it herself. She'll say no if she's not hungry, but often accepts it on the spoon - just gets a bit frustrated with the skill of using the spoon herself, I think. I give her plenty of time to practise, but then help if she's not eating much. And if she doesn't want it, then it's time to take the plate away.

A good drink of milk at bedtime helps a good night's sleep, too.

lovechoc, if you're still around - have you tried having the last meal at 5pm (or even 5:30pm)? I've found the timing of the meal particularly important at the end of the day - too early and they don't want to eat, too late and they're too tired or maybe too hungry.

we have been through various stages of this - biggest problem just being very very slow to eat. helps a lot when I set a timer and tell him he has half an hour to eat then it goes in the bin (I know I know v wasteful but actually gets him to eat it so not really that wasteful)

I never tell them they can't have pudding if they don't eat the main...pudding is usually fruit or yoghurt anyhow. so its a case of they can eat what has been done for the meal, but I am not doing anything different. I never ever would go down that route as with 3 I would then end up making 3 meals.

They actually all eat pretty well now. We often have to have competitions - who can take the biggest bite of x, who can take the first bite of....

first person to have a clean plate is the "dinner winner" (cheesy but they like it)

No, it's got to be between 4.30 and 5pm really, as I've got to get DC bathed around 5.30pm, as the youngest goes to sleep at 6pm. We've tried having our main meal later but it doesn't work out well at all. DS1 is asleep at 7pm, DS2 at 6pm. Thanks for thinking of other stuff that may work though :)

Am same Stealthtoddler - we only have the same main meal at the dinner table. I do not make seperate meals for everyone.

We have ice cream or cake 1-2x per week and if she wants that I will ask her to eat her veg at least.

Reading this thread with interest as I also have 2 fussy eaters. I thought DS who is 3.5yrs is fussy, that was until I started weaning his sister now 21 months. Compared to her, my DS is a good eater actually - just that he doesn't eat what I want him to eat when I want him to eat it! He does generally have a healthy diet. Although doesn't touch any veg apart from peas or sweetcorn. Will eat fruit though.
My problem with him is that he is not hungry at dinner time, which is at about 6pm in our house. But this is because he has a substantial snack at about 4.30pm when I collect him from nursery. He always asks for a banana and might even have 2 on the way home. So no wonder he has no room for dinner. But then he gets hungry around 7pm while getting ready for bed and asks for snacks, but refuses to eat his dinner if we reoffer it. The snack is always cashew nuts so very healthy and till recently we have been giving into him and giving that to him (plus he has a glass of milk as well), but I am fed up with left over dinner and me and DH have been refusing to give him the cashew nuts if he doesn't have a go of his dinner. I don't know whether we are trying to do the right thing though.

My DD 21 months only eats a tiny amount of solids. Eats a lot at nursery they tell me, but at home hardly anything. She fills up on breastmilk instead.
I don't cajole or bribe her at all, just leave her to it, as I don't think she will even understand it if I start saying that she has to eat up her meal or there won't be dinner etc etc. If I try to encourage her to eat a bit more, she just starts crying and trying to get out of her high chair, so it is totally pointless. She is a spoon refuser too mostly, so it's not like I can spoonfeed her either. I BF on demand still, at least she is getting that.

My own DD used to be like this - she's never been a fussy eater per se, but we still fell into the meal time drama trap as it became her way of pushing my buttons for attention/reaction & became a bit of a nasty habit that drove me around the bend -

she always used to start pushing her food around the plate like it was dirt & then came the "so how many forkfuls do I have to eat, before she's even had one - even with her favourite foods - which when pointed out to her - wouldn't be her favourite TODAY

Ignore, ignore, ignore, really is good advice, they won't really go hungry & if they do it won't hurt them occasionally & they'll soon learn that you mean business if you sy thats it & no snacks if you don't eat your meal & STICK to that - BUT, that goes against our instincts to feed & nurture them, so is FAR easier said than done.

My breakthrough came on holiday & BOY was it an eye opener - the situation at meal times had become so stressful for me, that my BP would go through the roof - so come holiday I decided I was having a break & she could help herself to the buffet & eat what she likes, I was having nothing to do with it -

first meal she starts following me around the buffet, so what can I have - Me, whatever you like - that, that, that, may make your tummy poorly, but your choice - etc etc etc - she then sat down at the table with tray full of junk grinning from ear to ear, asking how much she had to eat, just kept on repeating, your choice, I'm on holiday & not going to play food wars with you, eat or don't eat what you like - if you make yourself ill, your Dad can deal with you -

Cue MASSIVE tantrum in the middle of the restaurant, telling me I wasn't allowed to let her do as she pleased as I was her Mum & I was being a rubbish one if I let her eat anything she liked - stuck to my guns all week, by day 2, she was picking up the healthy foods she really does like :)

We've never looked back :)

My DD also has never had separate meals made for her, bar extra spicy curry of similar, we all eat the same & bar weaning, always have

I am a dinner lady at my son's school and we try to encourage the little ones up to year 2 to try a bit of something as they always say they don't like the food on offer but have probably never tried it.

The menus are varied and the local council are always bringing in new things which is good and the salad bar is proving very popular with some.

If a child looks as though he or she is not eating their dinner the midday assistants usually let the parents know. We pay £9.25 per week which is subsidised - where can you get a 2 course meal for that anywhere else than at primary school. (Tameside, Greater Manchester.)

I have a fussy 4yo who eats very little. I can stay very relaxed with her most of the time but the issue I have is that her 2 older brothers eat everything very quickly at teatime. They can have a big snack after school and then eat an adult portion for tea. They then want to have pudding and go and play. Meanwhile dd is still sitting there picking at her tiny portion and sobbing because she cant have pudding yet.

I find it very tricky to deal with, she will start with the "how many spoonfuls do I have to have?" practically as soon as I put the plate down. I don't like denying her pudding but it tends to be the only threat that gets her eating her main course. Tis very frustrating....

You are spot on anniemac a lot of trouble starts when they start school and hear all the "uuurghh"s! ladydepp take it down to 1 or 2 dessertspoonfuls on the plate, then your answer is "all of it". If she does that then give the fruit/pud. Once she's eating that much you can slowly increase. The deal is she musn't bargain with you. Once she does that she forfeits pud.

Seems like pudding causes more problems than it solves. Why do we have this thing about children needing puddings? Adults don't have a pudding with every meal.

Adults don't need the extra calories, that's why! ;)

Does your pediatrician think she is underweight?

If not, I'd probably just leave her to it. If she doesn't eat, she'll get hungry and eat at the next meal time.

My niece and nephew are like this and it drives my sister in law 'round the bend, she practically begs them in tears to eat something. They like the control, I think. And know she will give in and give them Oreos and Doritos just to get them to eat. :)

Children don't need calories from sweet stuff either though. Puddings that have to be earned/can be withheld just seem to be causing loads of weird food issues and upsets.

my dd is like this! my ds eats and eats anything and she sits and nibbles and messes around. we all eat together for mealtimes and I always put the dishes on the table for everyone to serve themselves- this way they have control over what they have on their plate. dd picks about, and gets down.she says her tummy is full. I don't say anything but she is not allowed to go and watch tv or bother us at all when we are eating. DS will have pudding, which I give her if she wants it. We are all different and sometimes she does eat loads. I try and feed them what they like though, even if its roast potatoes for 2 days:) I also do the weekly menus with them.

There are no snacks unless its fruit between meals, and homemade cake with milk midmorning. oh, and no fizzy drinks ever.

One thing about having a good eater round- someone asked me to do that with ds and he copied this boy so it didn;t work!

i wouldn't make a big thing of it, just no snacks, eat properly yourself with her, and make her stuff she likes! or take her swimming. everyone is starving after swimming:)

I have a fussy eater too but in hindsight probably all our own making...

Anyway one main problem is that we rarely eat tea together (I'm northern, dinner at midday! ). He eats anytime from 5 - 6.30 depending on whether he's been in nursery and we eat after he's gone to bed. My partner only got home from work at 6.30 and now it's me only getting home at this time so it suits us better. We tend not to eat a lot of blander food that my son might eventually like so we're really limiting opportunities for him to try things.

He hardly eats anything in nursery and rarely tries anything new. We do bribe him to try new things but reading all the posts I feel we should knock this on the head.

Given that he had such a limited palette of food that he'll eat, will the taking the plate away work? Or does that only work when they are just messing about with food you know they actually like? He's starting nursery at school full time in sept. I'm putting him on school dinners but fear it'll all go in the bin!

He's 3.5 BTW.

Curry, I think that your advice is great. We have that approach with our 3yo DD who can be very fussy indeed. I know she's not underweight; I know she won't starve.

Usually, she will have compensated during one or both of her other meals. I try to ensure that she eats healthy snacks, too, so that she's getting nutrition from fruit, or cheese sticks, for example. My aim is not to let her fussiness control our mealtimes!

We've found this book to be very helpful when it comes to dealing with fussy eaters - our 2.4 year old DD being one!

Following the advice in the book has taken the stress out of mealtimes and DD is gradually adding more foods to her repertoire.

One of the breakthroughs was to serve the second course at the same time as the first course (it's usually fruit and yoghurt) so a higher value isn't placed on the "sweet" course compared to the savoury course. Sure, DD might eat the fruit and yoghurt first, but that's okay because it's all healthy stuff and often stimulates her to then tuck into the savoury course.

She's still a vegetable refusenik, although I've also got creative in finding ways of getting veg into her diet (carrot and courgette muffins are popular!) - but I'm not going to beat myself up about that too much because she eats plenty of fruit, fresh and dried and also has a daily dose of multi-vits.

I always serve DD what we're having, although she may have a modified form of it - for example, putting the sauce/stew/curry etc. separate from the rice and mixing a little cream cheese in with the rice (which she'll now often eat having previously not wanted it) etc.

We never force DD to finish any part of her meal if she doesn't want to, but she doesn't get seconds of anything unless she's eaten everything else (usual refrain: "If you're still hungry DD, you can eat your broccoli/potato/sausage etc. and if you're still hungry after that, then you can have some more X."

We do offer snacks, but they're usually healthy and enable us to legitimately stop giving endless seconds without panicking her into thinking it'll be ages before she can next eat ("No more now DD, but you can have some more raisins at snack time..." "No more banana now DD, but you can have some more with your supper..." etc.) - apparently this is one way of discouraging over-eating.

Anyway, those are a few of the things we do - but overwhelmingly, I would agree with those who say hard as it is, try not to sweat it. Piling on the stress at mealtimes is a one-way ticket to eating nightmares for all concerned. We quickly noticed the difference in DD's attitude towards food once we stopped threatening/cajoling/bribing/nagging etc.

Good luck!

The only thing I can say is that I have 3 boys and each one had their version of delaying meal times etc. The lesson I learned was hard at first but I battled through and it worked! No more fuss! The health visitor told me not to worry, children will not go hungry was the first lesson. Then at meal times if they refused to eat then nothing further would be given until the next mealtime! It was hard and at times i was tempted to give in but I'm on the other side now and that's one less stressful event a day! xx

Inmaculada - your post reminded me, when DD was younger I would often give her a couple of slices of fruit or veg to eat while I was getting her food ready and I think that small snack did often help get her appetite going, I've also done the putting 'pud' (usually fruit/yogurt) on the table at the same time.
As to going to bed hungry - I think with toddlers, given that they may be battling with lots of other interesting things going on and sometimes might not eat enough at mealtimes, I would offer DD the same snack (every time) if she woke in the evening (before we were in bed) and was hungry, which was a drink of water and a dry oatcake - enough to make her feel full again, but certainly not a snack worth waking up for! Now she's older, if she asks for food when waking I'll say no, she has to wait until breakfast. She always eats a decent breakfast.