scouts or woodcraft folk?

[fattybum]

Hope it's okay to post this here!

So, which is better, or should ds do both? A few people have told me that scouts is a bit religious, not sure if this is true.

Experiences welcomed!

Thanks

And is that a bad thing?

::checks dangly turquoise earrings::

::too wet for Birkies today::

Not at all CITGM

::hides several pairs of Birkenstocks under bed::

Nothing wrong with it at all BUT in my experiences very, very different to Scout/Brownies etc. I can't exactly say talking in a circle with "The Talking Stick" about how we felt about things, making plaster of Paris masks of our faces or camping in a leaders back garden taught me anything that would be massively useful to me.

Although it did later come out that the guy who had sent up the group was having an extra-marital affair with the woman that helped out & a friend & I mused whether it was just a cunning ploy for them to spend time together.

I was going to query the money thing too. As a unit, we get absolutely nothing from internal means, and all money is collected in registration fees. A large percentage of that is fed through to district, then they cream off a bit and sent it on to area, who cream off some more and send the rest on to national. We also raise money with those cookies you don't have in the uk, but the same thing happens with the money. We keep a portion and the rest gets fed up the food chain. Money coming down to participants? Not that I have ever seen, except in the occasional hardship circumstance where a portion of the registration fees are waived.

We have to pay an extortionate amount in rent as well. Which leaves me diddly squat for badges. so we have to fundraise. Bake sale next month, everyone. Or there's no camp, and no crafts, and we can all sit round and sing ging gang goolie, cos it's cheap.

Anyone found the WF accounts? I'd love to know if they were funded at national level by any particular organisation.

£75k in grants nationally? Interesting. In the last three months I've raised a third of that for a local group in grant money, lol . For a national organisation that benefits so many, it's much lower than I would have thought.

I've been back for a second look.

Girlguiding UK's accounts for 2010 show (on page 22) that they received £86k from the Dept for Environment and Climate Change and £30k from EDF Energy to part-fund a biomass boiler at one of their training and activity centres. That, as far as I can see, is the only government money they received, for (I would have thought) an impeccable purpose.

Sounds absolutely right.

Soooooooo, WF financials, then?

Duh, I didn't realise you had linked....

www.escouts.org.uk/forum/threads/18428-Government-Funding
note comments by UK commissioner......
Haven't got time to provide more evidence of stuff that has been widely reported in the media already, google or archives through media should provide you with more info if you feel you need it.

That tony doesn't beat round the bush, does he?

Thanks for the link. I've not come across that site before. Off to read lots more questions

Hi
just popped by and saw this. I have been a Woodcraft Folk Leader. As is often the case with many groups it varies across the country. Go along and see what they do.

Currently Woodcraft gets no money from the government and our grant funded income is from the Big Lottery. We are also funded by the cooperative and member/group registrations.

Sorry, what does 'the cooperative' mean? I understand the rest.

Cooperative as in coop shop bank insurance etc i presume?

MadWoman - I can't see anything in the Girlguiding UK accounts to quantify how much support in kind they get from churches or anyone else (but as the accounts seem to be a scanned document and not searchable I guess it might be in there somewhere).

WF may not be receiving any government money at the moment, but its accounts for 2011 suggest that it has done in the past or expects to in the future. From page 9:

^The third key funding stream comprises money from government sources and associated funders such as the Big Lottery Fund. Some project work and, where allowable, an element of core funding, is supported by grants from
other charitable funds and foundations and Awards for All provides a number of small grants to groups for their equipment and local activities.^

Really? That co-op?....

Yy. I suspect they are funded via govt grants when applicable like any youth organisation, but wondered if they got any from any partner orgs. It was the idea that in some way guiding and scouting is centrally funded and the poor woodies were being denied funds by The Machine that I was curious about. And it's obviously tosh.

I couldn't see the church stuff, but the in kind donations probably wouldn't be in there anyway. Might fish around later on. Have a camp planning session to write up and distribute this morning ...

The Wf lost their government funding back in 2005 and haven't got it back.
It was something to with not being value for money and I thought it was also to do with lack of diversity. Something like £50000 was only benefiting 9000 members.

Was that for overall programme, bruffin? Or for a specific grant? They'd still be eligible for those on a case by case basis. Interesting that they were funded originally though.

It was the overall programme from what I ham gather.

That's interesting, bruffin. But if there's been no government money since 2005, why do accounts for as recently as 2011 describe it as if it was still an active thing?

They did get a seconded employee from the dept of education, maybe they count them.
I can't find anything to state that the funding was reinstated.

Another seasoned MNer here. I'm ignoring the trolling because I don't think it's at all helpful in this discussion, but I will say answer this question - why did we choose WF over scouts for my boys? Because it's mixed... and they give the children lots of responsibility. A couple of the children at our local WF go to both Scouts and WF, so it's perfectly possible to give them both a go and see which one your child prefers. Ignore any negative stories on here about either group. Other posters are right: it's entirely down to your child, and also the group leaders, so investigate both and then make a decision. Good luck!

Hey Folks

I grew up in the woodcraft folk while my partner grew up in the scouts. We both seemed to have a very similar experiences. I can't say my district was very diverse but I come from a very middle class area and I think my partner had a very similar experience of this. I wouldn't say we were quirky or weird, there were members who were quirky but that's what I loved about them and I think my partner had a similar experience in the scouts. I think someone described it really well, it's about who your leader is and how that affected your experience. Funnily enough I was a Catholic at woodcraft and my partner was an agnostic at scouts and I don't think either organisation had problem with it. I am more political than she might be but I don't think the woodcraft movement has pushed me towards that or the scouts has discouraged her from it.

Blue Skies ;)