scouts or woodcraft folk?

[fattybum]

Hope it's okay to post this here!

So, which is better, or should ds do both? A few people have told me that scouts is a bit religious, not sure if this is true.

Experiences welcomed!

Thanks

Just back from very soggy St Georges Day event with local District Scouts. Have been in scouting since 18 on and off, now back as a Beaver Leader. Met husband through scouting, son is in scouts and the National Scout Shooting Squad, daughter is part of the Hampshire Scout Youth Network and went to the Worls Scout Jamboree last summer with 40,000 others!!
so I would say scouting for all the opportunties it gives you...ok most people don't get husbands through it!!
The religion bit is minimal and the promise says 'my god' rather than 'God' so you get a huge mix of different types of people and backgrounds.
It's about developing as a person and team and leadership skills. I think it helps to rub the edges off kids and make them more resiliant. And it looks good on college applications and CVs.

Essentially, they sound completely identical in terms of opportunities. with equal emphasis on friendship, global and camping opportunities etc.

So, it's back to the political being the deciding point. or whether you get a uniform.

I can honestly say that most of the posts in favour of the woodcraft movement could have been written about scouts lol. ( or guiding) our 12yos are actually camp planning for themselves and the younger sections at the moment. And I remember being 15 and in guides and being dead chuffed at having passed my assessment to be able to take my patrol camping on my own. very enid blyton. (suspect that's not allowed these days because of elf and safety lol)

I think each organisation is equally capable of turning out well rounded global citizens and leaders, which is grand.

Hi all,

My parents asked me if I wanted to start Woodcraft Folk when I was an ickle 6 year old. Now I'm an adult I volunteer with them when I can. My parents were Christians themselves but were very uncomfortable with the evangelical side of Scouts so began looking for a secular children's organisation and found Woodcraft Folk.

But we found Woodcraft Folk to be far more than merely a secular version of scouts. It's a comparison I usually shy away from as the two organisations are so different and co-operate well together without needing to compete all the time - Woodcraft Folk members and Scouts are often found at the same camps and both play important roles in the UK Youth Sector. But as this thread is all about making that comparison I've put a lot of thought into the next few paragraphs for those who are interested.

THE BASICS:
Woodcraft Folk is one of the oldest co-operative youth organisations in the world. It runs hundreds of youth groups in town and cities around the UK where children and young people make friends, build self-confidence and learn about big ideas through co-operative activities. In school holidays many Woodcraft Folk groups go camping sometimes locally and other times on large international youth festivals.

In the UK Woodcraft Folk has about 20,000 members and around 3000 regular volunteers but urgently need more volunteers to come forward as there are thousands of children on waiting lists for Woodcraft Folk who cannot currently participate. World-wide Woodcraft Folk has around a million members in sister organisations all over the globe from Palestine to Senegal to China.

DIFFERENCES:
What are the key difference between Scouts/Guides and Woodcraft Folk? There are three parts to this:

Since 1925 Woodcraft Folk has offered a programme of educational youth work that is diverse, progressive and accessible. It is and has always been co-educational, secular and democratic. They believe that young people should be challenged to think for themselves about big ideas such as climate change, social justice, international conflict and even fair economics. This active commitment to debates, discussion and political education means Woodcraft Folk children become global citizens with an unusually in-depth understanding of the world around them and the confidence to challenge injustice where they see it. Many Woodcraft Folk young people in the past have gone on to become civil servants, politicians, teachers, charity workers and international volunteers who use their skills and knowledge to benefit others.

Secondly Woodcraft Folk's principles have led the way in inclusive youth work for over 80 years. Unlike Scouts or Guides Woodcraft Folk has always been open to boys and girls learning and playing together, has long advocated the equal rights of LGBTQ young people and has never turned young people away for being of a particular faith group. Scouts are a fantastic organisation and have followed where Woodcraft Folk led in opening their doors to women and LGBTQ people but regrettably even today young people who define as atheist or secular are often made to feel uncomfortable and unwanted in Scouts.

Thirdly, the level of youth empowerment in Woodcraft Folk is quite unique. Young people are able to take on roles and responsibilities that they simply would not have access to through other organisations. Woodcraft Folk believes that young people learn best when they can work alongside adults as equals. (Example: Their board of trustees has a large number of young people on and one of the lowest average ages of any UK board of trustees). Through Woodcraft Folk young people can take on meaningful responsibilities that sadly they may not be entrusted with in Scouts or Guides.

If you made it though all that well done and thanks! To get a more visual and diverse flavour what Woodcraft Folk is like take a peak at this newspaper made by young members of the charity: www.woodcraft.org.uk/courier
(i have some spares if anyone would like a paper copy, just ask)

Best wishes,
PhinHarper

As a kid I loved Woodcraft and when for around four years (the only reason I stopped was there wasn?t a group in my area for older children). I don?t remember there ever been any kind of political agenda, just a lot of fun playing games and the odd walk or camp. All were welcome and accepted, including hippies I?m sure, but we were all kids drawn from a working class area and hippies we were not. It was very much like a local youth group full of everyday kids having fun. From my experiences I would highly recommend it.

Dd's (7 & 13) love being in WF, DS hated it. Eldest DD has accessed some fantastic opportunities though WF (musical, camping and leadership) and we have all enjoyed camping with WF. DS was born with an unfortunate hippie intolerance that he doesn't seem to be growing out of, so all the wide games and co-operation bought him out in hideous swearing and tantrums :o
As with all these things, success for your kids depends largely on who's running the local groups and where your kids' mates go. We've loved WF but we like a bit of left wing politics and counter-culture. Another point to consider is that, in our district at least, a high level of parental involvement is required.

I've been in both Girl Guides (My gender meant I wasn't allowed to join scouts) and the Woodcraft Folk. I know Girl Guiding UK is a different organisation but it is similar and I did meet a lot of scouts at big camps.

I would definitely recommend the Woodcraft Folk over Scouts. I have found it much more accepting. I have never felt there was any prejudice against my gender or anything else about me.

But everyone is different. At the last Woodcraft camp I was on we had a couple of scouts there to see what it was like. One of them said that, although he loved our camp, he preferred the more regimented style of a scout camp.

It is true that the Woodcraft Folk educates it's members from a socialist viewpoint but how strong the emphasis is on this will differ from group to group, just as religious teaching does within scouts. Checking out your local groups is the best idea.

One key difference between the two organisations is the level of youth empowerment, the amount of stuff young people get to decide and organise themselves. The Scouts still runs on a militaristic style, few groups allow their younger members to take on responsibilities. They are trying to improve this but there a long way from their ideal which is still less tha already happens in Woodcraft.

In Woodcraft, everyone can take on a responsibility at any age, this runs right from in local groups meetings to the national and even international level. A fine example of this is the DF (District fellow) age range 16-20. These young people are autonomous, they run their own camps, have their own committees and make their own rules. Go to their DF run website (www.spanthatworld.com/) for more information.

Hi, I went to both Guides and Woodcraft in the 80's. I don't what Guides is like now but my experience is that Guides was deathly boring and Woodcraft was fabulous. It was mixed right from the start, no girl boy segregation. I don't remember anyone being weird or woo ( :) ) just great fun.
I made some fantastic friends, some of whom I have kept in contact with and the camps and campfire memories some of my best from being a kid. I my experience Woodcraft was more relaxed with the emphasis being on looking after the countryside and everyone around you.
Hope this helps..

I'm currently in Woodcraft, and have been since the age of 12 (I'm 19 now).

A lot of the good bits have already been said (rather well in fact, by PhinHarper), but just to sum up: I personally feel that we are a lot more empowering of our young people than any other organisation I've been in. We treat everybody equally and often do fun workshops and games on topics such as refugees and asylum seekers and gender equality and suchlike throughout the age groups.

Also, there's nothing stopping you joining both Scouts and Woodies, the two organisations sometimes do things co-operatively too.

For both Scouts and Woodcraft, a huge amount depends on what your local group is like. Personalities of leaders, how they choose to run it, what the other kids are like etc. We've had very different experiences of both movements - one ropey Scout group and one brilliant one, both in the same city; a friendly but chaotic and therefore not very enjoyable Woodcraft group in the city we used to live in, but a totally fabulous one where we live now. And what suited our kids might not suit yours. You need to suck it and see, IMO.

A bunch of new posters joined to spread the word about woodcraft folks

Woodcraft Folk members are very helpful. :)

Sorry just comes across as creepy.

The link to this was put on the woodcraft facebook site... we know that there are loads of prejudices and stuff about woodcraft and that lots of people are either misinformed or know nothing about it. We joined so that we could give our views... otherwise this would be a very scout dominated conversation. We believe in our organisation and think its important to share something so important to us, especially as its such a common debate... Sorry if that bothers you!

Well I don't know much about WF, but am very impressed with the Scout movement, DS has just moved up to Cubs after two years in Beavers. They do a great variety of activities and all sorts of active play, plus several extra acitivity events each year

I was also at very soggy Church Parade today (maybe the same one as you FridayFreedom) and inclusion-wise was struck by the amount of girls there seem to be in the organisation now. They only have one District parade per year, with church service, plus Remembrance Sunday Service and Christmas Church Service, none of which are compulsory. I haven't noticed much else in the way of religious content (I helped at Beavers about twice a term).

My DB and DH both went right through the Scout movement and have made lifelong friendships through the movement.

Well you have reinforced why I wouldn't send my dcs there. You just sound like robots towing the party line.

I think you misunderstood. We really enjoy it and want to share it, especially as most people are misinformed. We weren't told to write anything but were linked to an interesting and relevant debate (which is part of what woodcraft is about). But if you think that that is 'towing the party line', which frankly I would say is more true about scouts, thats up to you.

You obviously know very little about scouts. The didn't lose their government funding because of lack of diversity unlike the woodcraft folk..

If there's one thing I would not call the Scouting movement it is evangelical.

Bruffin as a movement I think Woodcrafters would find it very difficult to tow a party line because there are no two people in the folk who can agree on what Woodcraft means to them.

For me it is a movement that educates people neutrally to make their own opinions on the woodcraft folk and the wider world.

I would say try both Woodcraft and scouts and see which takes your fancy.

I'm struggling to understand how you are a Cub Leader CogitoErgoSometimes as that means you have made the promise. If you are an aetheist then you didn't mean it or have broken the promise, and I'm not sure how you reconciled that?

I used to be a guider, but am openly atheist. I had no idea this was an issue in Scouts!

What Fidlesticks said.

I don't want this to turn into evangelism every organisation has its difficulties. I've never been a part of Scouts, but I have close friends who are, and met some nice scouty people when we shared a camp over easter so from what I've seen of the organisation they are pretty cool. I think what I would have a problem with is the regimented nature of it but I have no idea how much that is present in a scout group.

Phin's post was a bit of an essay to read, but I thought quite informative about what we are like. If a scout was to come here and be similarly informative, I think it could only be a good thing.

Scouts are about having fun and thinking of others it is simple as that. There is no party line or agenda. There is nothing more to say.

lou1111 I bow to your superior knowledge of Woodcraft Folk (only ever heard of them on MN) but I have to tell you your knowledge of the Scouting Movement is woefully wrong. YOu shouldn't really post things as if you have a knowledge of them when clearly you don't.

OP As many have already said, the best thing is to go along to your local groups and see how they are run. There are good leaders, great leader, weaker leaders and absolutely bloomin' fantastic leaders in all organisations - you need to find out what each group can offer your dc, and which your dc are best suited to. One group can be a brilliant group, but it might not suit your dc's personality, or be what they want to do.

From what I know about cubs and scouts is that they are Christian, which might not encourage diversity

Err, no. If you had read the Scouts' policy document which Blu linked to in one of the first posts, you would see that the Scouts assume that their members have a religion but they don't assume that they are Christian.