I am never going to last until Feb

[nutcracker]

Am meant to be doing a positive parenting course in feb. The main reason i am doing it is due to Dd2's behaviour.

The course doesn't start until sometime in feb, but at this rate she won't live that long.

Last night her and dd1 stayed at my moms and by all accounts they were both perfectly behaved.

I went to meet them this morning to go shopping and within about 2 minutes of me being there, dd2 is beating dd1 up, and virtually barking at me if i spoke to her.

We walked down to the bus stop with her sulking all the way. At the bus stop she attempted to push over the buggy (with ds in it), kick a woman who I know cos she spoke to her, push me into the road, and try and rip my coat.
She also sat on the floor kicking the back of the buggy.

She is just so uncontrolable, yet at school she is perfectly fine, infact she is perfectly fine everywhere except when i'm there.

My mom said maybe i'm just not strict enough, but what the hell am i meant to do with her. She doesn't care if you take things off her, or stop her doing something, she'd just basically scream at me for ages. The other day she screamed and shiouted for nearly 2 hours.

Ignoring her occasionally works, but I can't always do that, it depends on what she is doing. She was throwing stuff in the shops, so I couldn't ignore that.

HELP

oh nutty, what a nightmare - how old is she?
Can your mum help out more often until Feb? (At most, its 7 weeks or so to get through)
Could you schedule specific times for your mum to help out, so you can plan ahead - its easier to keep from hitting her with a mallet if you know that the following day your mum will have her!
Have you tried the reward charts? Positive and negative sanctions, if she is old enough to understand
I think you have the patience of a saint, just reading your post made me think that I would have given her a smack on the legs!
Mine is 2 and I use the naughty mat and hands on head, which does work but his tantrums are not that bad - though I did once smack him when he bit me - frequent but not bad IYSWIM

Does she take fish oils ? If so did she miss them yesterday being away (it can be very noticeable with ds). If not are they worth a try.

She is 6. We have tried reward charts but without sucess as she doesn't care if she gets the reward or not.

Unfortunatly my mom works practically full time, so she can only have her every few weeks.

Poor dd1 has scrathes all over her where dd2 has pinched her repeatedly.

Nope she doesn't take them. I was going to try her on them but wasn't sure which to try as there were so many, and also can't afford to buy them and then have her efuse them because they taste awful.

I have just started giving her squash that has no additives or preservatives but tbh I'm not sure it's that as she has only had water for the past 2 days and yet she was still like a wild animal today.

I know this is going to be a really unpopular suggestion, so pls don't all hound me, but for the sake of your other children and yourself, maybe you need to be really tough for a while

You know, if she was going to a friends, then she can't, and when the other children get a sweet, she can't???
Would that work - I know its mean but sometimes, some kids need a hard punishment like that to realise you mean business and there are consequences

What about her dad? Does he help? Does she do any after school activities?

I do stop her from having sweets etc if she has been naughty, but tbh I find it really hard to think of things to take away.
She doesn't have pocket money so can't take that away. I also can't say well you aren't going to xyz because then i'd have to not tlet the other kids go to which is unfair.

She goes to Rainbows on a wednesday after school which she loves, and at a push I woulds stop her from going, although I don't like to because I have paid money i can ill afford for her to go.

I'd do that with Rainbows anyway Nutty
I understand what you mean about the money but you have paid it whether she goes or not haven't you?
And perhaps speak to the leaders at Rainbows and explain that its all you can think of and could they support you - so if she misses a week, or an trip with Rainbows, she knows that her Rainbow leaders know she was naughty
And keep reinforcing how much money has been wasted because you paid for rainbows and she couldn't go because she was naughty
I know its really really mean (and it deprives you of the break you get when she is there) but it might just be the thing that strikes home with her??
Also, you don't necessarily have to take things away do you? Eg, if she wants to watch X on tv, you can say no, you kicked your sister on the way home from school so you are not watching x
???

I'm with Tillykins. I would talk to her and say that you are very unhappy about her behaviour and you are not going to allow it to continue. As a punishment for todays behaviour she is not going to be able to watch TV tonight or whatever else you can think of. Then tell her that if she misbehaves again that she will not be able to go to Rainbows. I think you need to hit hard where it hurts occasionally to get them realising that you really do mean business. Sorry you're having a nightmare, 6 year olds can be very trying. The other key to this I have found is being consistent, you have to make sure that once you have decided on something that you don't go back.

Definitely do the fish oils - Eye Q, Haliborange, Boots Smart Omega, Efalex or any of those with Omega 3 might help. They aren't necessarily expensive, especially in liquid form and are on offer \link{http://www.boots.com/guidedsearch/newsearch.jsp?contentId=null&articleId=null&searchArea=1&uri=%2Fshop%2Fdepartment_new_template.jsp&searchTerm=fish+oils&Nty=1&Nao=0&classificationId=1001130&N=0&Ntk=all\on 3 for 2.

Have you tried the pasta jar, perhaps for all 3 so it won't seem as if ytou are singling her out. Set one or two targets for each child. I rather suspect that you will need to be firmer once you have started the course anyway and be consistent about where you draw the line, so perhaps it is worth practising now.

b*gger try again 3 for 2

hi nutcracker, you're not having a great time of it at the moment are you???

just wanted to say i agree with what the others have said. with regard to rainbows.. the money is paid now, regardless of whether she goes, so i would definitely use that as something to take away if she is naughty.

also, make sure she knows exactly what is happening each day and warn her in advance. so "in ten minutes we're leaving for school" and then after 5 minutes warn her again "in 5 mins we're leaving... " etc etc

some kids find it hard suddenly changing plans, or changing what they are doing and it makes it easier for them to know what is about to happen iyswim?

you could also do a reward scheme where she gets a prize each day? the prize could be something like having a special dessert, or having some bubbles in the bath... nothing that's going to cost you much money but something that is instant iyswim? she doesn't ahve to wait a week for it

the other big thing is IGNORE! I know it's very, very difficult... but she wants your attention. so when she is being naughty do everything you can to ignore it. (sorry, just saw that you already ignore!)

also, again a difficult one i think, but do youi have much one-2-one time with her? it may be worth setting aside 5 or 10 minutes every day, or every other day to just read or draw or just talk with her. it may be that she wants your attention so badly that she is getting it the only way she knows how?

Nutcracker: I fully sympathise. Our DD is also 6 and is an absolute angel when she is not with me but is generally out of control (and as a result in full control of everyone around her). My friends and her teachers would never believe the stories that DH and I could tell.

I generally blame myself for not understanding her needs/moods but that is fairly typical mother behavious isn't it? My SIL suggested that it could be related to blood sugar lows and that keeping on top of feeding her healthy snacks regularly as opposed to battles through meals could be the solution. Is your DD2 a picky eater?

When is she happiest/at her best? Do you think that she might be understimulated/bored? I find that our best days can be the ones that are full of planned activities that keep DD's interest (but this may feed her insanity on the days where we are at home, I suppose.)

Love the idea of the pasta jar and another good suggestion for challenging little ones is to remember to find them being 'good' and compliment the behaviour. In our DD's case, it may have become easy for her to fill the role of the 'naughty child' as this is a guarantee of our full attention and often leads to our other two being punished as well. (For example if she is acting up in public we often pack up and head for home but this is really hard for her brothers to understand if they are behaving themselves appropriately.)

Keep posting here and talking with other parents as they are often a source of information and they don't feel the same emotional involvement. I think that you are an amazing parent for being concerned and for being willing to take positive parenting courses. I know that not everyone will agree with me but I learned a lot from Barbara Coloroso's book Kid's Are Worth It and from Dr Sears' many parenting books. They helped to keep it all in perspective. (I found them at the local library.)

Thanks for all the posts, have to get ready for work now, but will come back and read them properly and reply in the morning

Sounds like typical attention seeking behaviour. I don't know much about her but can offer a few suggestions. My ds is 6.5 and has behavioural problems due to autism. However these tend to be quite specific and identifiable, ie if dd says something "wrong" then he will hit her. In a way it makes it easier for us rather than your average NT 6 year old who has much more complex needs/fears etc. She is the middle child yes? Often the middle child has problems. Can you spend any time just the two of you away from the other children... sounds like she is jealous of the attention they get which is why she is better behaved when they aren't around.

Also does she like doing tasks around the house, my 6 year old loves helping and it reinforces his sense of self-worth. Today he cleaned the inside of the car windows. OK they are all streaky but it kept him quiet for awhile. I don't need to give him stickers/rewards for this but this could be an added incentive for you which could work towards a bigger treat. They certianly seem to work on all these parenting programes. One of them the mum just kept handing out big home made gold stars and gave them to her daughter when they were out on a shopping trip. For every 20 mins she was good she got another one and the girl filled them up in her own little bag and at the end they went and bought something small.

HTH.

I honestly don't think she is jealous of her siblings, she has never had a problem with Ds at all, she adores him. It's usually dd1 who has the jealousy problems.

I don't get to spend much one to one time with her no, as I always have at least one of the other kids with me and tbh I can't see how I can change that. My mom will always help out if she possibly can, but she works so it's just not always possible.

I agree with Cadmum that our dd may also now behave this way because it is expected, and also she knows it will garuntee her some attention.

I do ignore her if at all possible, and friends have said to me that I must have nerves of steel to ignore her for so long, as she can go on for a very very long time. Generally if the behaviour is happeneing at home, and she isn't hurting anyone then I ignore it, and it does work, as you can see her trying to work out why she isn't getting a response, but then she will generally hit someone, so that I have to respond.

She saw a psych a while ago due to mild ocd, and she said it is good that it doesn't happen at school as that shows that she can control her behaviour when she knows she has to. I do kind of agree with this but also think that it is the routine of school that greatly helps her as her behaviour in term time is generally not as bad as in the holidays.
The psych thinks I may not be setting clear enough boundries and going back on what I say which I do agree with and is why I am going on the parenting course.

It is so hard to explain it to people because they look at me like I must be mad as she looks so angelic when she is being good.

We are at the point now again where I am now avoiding taking her out anywhere at all unless it is strictly nessercary as I just cannot control her or predict what she might do.
She runs off and really couldn't care less wether or not she gets lost or not. I don't trust her not to run out of a shop and dissapear. I also don't trust her not to lash out at a complete stranger or throw something in a shop.

I will try hard to be more consistent in the punishments i dish out and follow them through. Hopefully this parenting course will really help me and her.

Oh, i am also going to get seome fish oils too.

I did a positive parenting course and it really helped so well done for putting that in place.

I also used a book called '1,2,3 Magic' by Thomas Phelan. Effective discipline for 2-11 year olds. That was the best thing I ever did. It was fantastic. Well, worked miracles for me anyway. See if you could get hold of a copy. Your local library may have one.

Thankyou for that Poppiesinaline, I will hunt for it.

Hi Nutcracker, Sorry things are so difficult right now. My Ds1 is a PITA quite often and I also found the "1-2-3 Magic" book really useful. I also drastically changed his diet and have noticed a huge deterioration in mood and behaviour since he's been 'off-diet' over Christmas. Changing diet can be loads of work if you're already overstretched, but as a principle if you miminise artificial colourings, flavourings and preservatives that helps a great deal.

Oh Nutty how I sympathise. I am sorry you are having such trouble. What I have started doing with ds1 (he is 6.5), who is basically a very nice gentle boy but sometimes just does daft things which will annoy me, I have said right, you won?t get X (at the moment he?s angling to have pocket money) and it does seem to calm him down.
I think as others have said you do have to be consistent. This sometimes means doing things you would rather not. A friend once took her daughter halfway to school in her jamas; I have left a birthday party with a badly behaved ds - felt awful but if you don?t carry it through they see that you won?t. Especially at this age.
I also think that 1-1 time with you might be what she wants. I know with 3 and trying to juggle work as well how hard that is, but even making time for 5 mins where she reads to you before school, or you sit and have a cuddle together, is so worth doing. I know you say it is hard with the others there, I hear you about that.
What I try to do is say to ds2, if he's trying to climb on my lap when DD is reading to me, "no ds2, this is my time with DD" and put him down firmly, so at least DD knows what I'm trying to do. I try to be consistent with this as well and make sure they each have some time with me. Oh it's so hard isn't it!
Good luck and keep posting to us.
Cxx

If library hasn't got a copy then I got my copy from Amazon. I think its about a tenner or so. Can't quite remember. The larger book stores should stock it too.

Get it quick! Honestly, it saved my life! Be prepared for a lot of work to start with though but believe me it DOES WORK. Well it does for my two anyway.

Have just ordered the book from Amazon, it sounds great.

I am going to look at her diet and see what changes I can make. She does eat ok, but since i started work we haven't been eating the best stuff really, more quick stuff.

Will try and sit down and see when i can allocate time for each child and then explain this to them too.

I could do with a day being 48 hours sometimes i think

Good for you. Keep us posted and let us know how you get on.

sorry to hear you are having a nightmare with your eldest dd.
In the past I had real problems with ds and seem to have overcome them.
I agree with everyone else. You need really clear rules about acceptable behaviour. I would sit down with her and get her to join in.
So you could have no hitting or hurting other people
no shouting
listening to what mummy says
etc etc etc
You mustn't have too many though, otherwise it becomes overwhelming, so just go for the ones that are really, really big issues at the moment.
Secondly, loads and loads of positive praise too. I found ds was crying out for me to acknowledge him in a good way. I had to really work hard at it, because it didn't come naturally to me to say "you are drinking your juice really well, that's great" but daft as it may sound, it makes a huge difference to them. they are being rewarded for good behaviour, lots of attention for the good stuff.
Hope some of this helps.

I have similar problems with ds2, who is 7, and have done since he was little. He was perfectly behaved over Christmas, then reverted to being a nightmare for the few days between New Year and going back to school. He is generally very well behaved at school, and is very bright. I have just read a book called Spirited Children, by Mary someone or other ( I can post a link if you're interested) and it does describe him perfectly. The gist is that some children are just more intense and need more understanding than others, and that it is more a case of understanding why your child is behaving badly and trying to avoid situations that are a trigger to bad behaviour and getting them to manage their own anger than supernanny type discipline. I have some reservations, but it does explain why my attempts to manage his behaviour by a system of rewards/punishments just hasn't really worked. I had worked out for myself that if I stopped expecting him to be naughty, made a real effort to respond to him positively and made time to do things with him on his own it made more difference to his behaviour than anything else. It is worth a read if you haven't read it already.I know it is hard to find time to do things wih one child when you have others (I have 3 others) but ultimately it takes less time than dealing with the bad behaviour. Obviously you still have to have clear boundaries and rules.

littleshebear, I would tend to agree with your approach. the author of Spirited Children is Mary Sheedy Kurcinka, btw - would thoroughly recommend it.

Nutcracker, sorry that your dd is giving you such a hard time. Some children make a mockery of punishments/rewards - I believe it shows intelligence and a certain stubborn streak. Not easy on parents, I have to admit, but it will put your dd in good stead in her adult years. The good thing is your dd is not out-of-control, clearly she knows how to behave in other situations.

I think it is a worthwhile investment to spend more one-on-one time with your dd. I don't underestimate how difficult it is with your other children to care for, but it is dd that is crying out for attention, not your others. So it is really just quality time with dd, if you can possibly manage to carve that out. Positive interactions will remind your dd how much she wants to please you - deep down, she does, I really believe that.