I am never going to last until Feb

[nutcracker]

Am meant to be doing a positive parenting course in feb. The main reason i am doing it is due to Dd2's behaviour.

The course doesn't start until sometime in feb, but at this rate she won't live that long.

Last night her and dd1 stayed at my moms and by all accounts they were both perfectly behaved.

I went to meet them this morning to go shopping and within about 2 minutes of me being there, dd2 is beating dd1 up, and virtually barking at me if i spoke to her.

We walked down to the bus stop with her sulking all the way. At the bus stop she attempted to push over the buggy (with ds in it), kick a woman who I know cos she spoke to her, push me into the road, and try and rip my coat.
She also sat on the floor kicking the back of the buggy.

She is just so uncontrolable, yet at school she is perfectly fine, infact she is perfectly fine everywhere except when i'm there.

My mom said maybe i'm just not strict enough, but what the hell am i meant to do with her. She doesn't care if you take things off her, or stop her doing something, she'd just basically scream at me for ages. The other day she screamed and shiouted for nearly 2 hours.

Ignoring her occasionally works, but I can't always do that, it depends on what she is doing. She was throwing stuff in the shops, so I couldn't ignore that.

HELP

I hadn't mentioned about starts being taken away anyway so at the mo she thinks she will just get one for good behavior.

Am just becoming totally stunned at her behaviour lately it just gets worse and worse.

If you are planning on trying fish oils, the Haliborange chewy blackcurrant ones go down well here. DS2 refused to drink the cheap stuff I got from the chemists in desperation. Sainsburys has 25% off Haliborange at the moment.

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What is aspartamine ?

nutty, I read on another thread that children need your love the most when they deserve it the least.

It sounds like dd feels under a lot of pressure to be good and is painfully aware that she is falling short in your eyes. This is just my personal opinion, I hope you will see it as that - but the star charts (with or without negative crosses) are just reminders to her that good behaviour is expected of her ie that she is not currently good. Is there any way you and dd could just go back to basics - ie engineer some time together - just you and her - doing something mutually enjoyable, that is removed from the day-to-day flash points of bedtime, getting dressed, shopping etc.

In other words, help dd by making it easy for her to be good. I can tell from your posts that you really really care about her.

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Spelt Aspartame if you are googling it!

Sorry, will hide in corner now for being know-it-all...

Did originally use ticks and crosses separately but it did not work. They found it too confusing. The way I do it they can see at a glance very easily how they are doing. I also make sure that their target is well achievable so they do not feel under pressure. And surely any form of reward system would then put the child under pressure, ie star charts, or marble pots etc. and IME that isn't the case. On that note though, you def have to make the reward very achievable for them. If they have to struggle to get to their goal then yes it can be disheartening for them. IME when first starting out on star charts etc, short term goals are better. IE work daily, if she get so many stars/ticks by the end of the day then she can get X. I let the child choose the treat (within reason!!). Hope that helps and hope this isn't confusing you too much Nutcracker. And also, some children do not respond well to star charts etc. Its just finding what works for your child. How is it going by the way?

I am going to be a bit controversial here, which is not really like me! Looking back to when I had my first two children, who are now 12.5 and 10, there was not all this emphasis on behavioural techniques, star charts, naughty steps etc. In fact, I seem to remember naughty steps were frowned on! Instead I followed the advice in my two parenting books, which was just really to stop the child every time they did something wrong, lift them away if necessary, tell them why they couldn't do whatever and just be persistent. Also, the best bit of advice ever from Rose Eliot, hardly a parenting guru, which was that the most important thing, above all else, was your relationship with your child. I didn't do star charts, ticks or anything else, and it seemed to work - not without hiccups and bouts of bad behaviour, but now they're both really well behaved most of the time, and great at school.

As I have mentioned, my ds2 was far more difficult, and the way I managed the others just didn't seem to work with him at all. Looking back, I think I just really didn't connect with him on some level - he is very active, and not at all interested in the sort of activities I would do with the others. In other words, my relationship with him was really bad.He would throw things, hit , scream, refuse to do what he was told - and all the while people would be insinuating I wasn't firm enough, but I was! probably too firm, and too strict, and always really assumed he would misbehave and pounced on any behaviour even if I would have ignored it with the other two.

So - very long winded, but I think if your dd is good at school, she can be good. If she is not good at home then there is a problem with your relationship with her, or a problem with something else at home,like not enough time to herself, or whatever. This is common sense.I do not mean this in a nasty way, as I have exactly the same problem. My ds has had a great experience at school - it is very structured, which he needs, no-one assumes he will misbehave, everyone thinks he is wonderful as he is old for his year, and very bright, and is very charming and popular. I try my best now to respond to him positively,and to think of our relationship first, even just by giving him a big hug when he comes into bed at 6am, and saying something like "lovely to see you" instead of "Oh God, it's too early, go back to bed," rant rant rant, which is what I used to be like. Have a think about her personality, and how something at home, or in your relationship may be frustrating it and causing these outbursts and see if you can change it a bit.

I hope this makes sense. It is something I feel quite strongly about, and believe me I have been in despair over my son's behaviour and really upset that everyone thought I just wasn't strict enough. There is so much emphasis on behavioural techniques now, that I think everyone thinks they are the be all and end all.This works better, for us. I really hope I haven't offended you, as I do know what it's like and know you will work it out, whatever method you choose, as you obviouly care for your daughter so much.

I agree, which is why for me star charts are all about seeking out the positive - actively looking all the time for things - however minor - to praise. it's a good exercise IMO and it's why I didn't use any negative things like sad faces or crosses.

hi

We've had a breakthrough with DS recently. He has a star chart at school and now he gets a pasta twist for every sticker he gets at school (when they remember - but thats another thread!)

He rushes home to count out his pasta and when his pot is full he's getting some more k'nex.

Cheers for that Littleshebear, made me feel great.

Fine so it is me thats the prob, must be because she is good at school, right.

nutcracker can I just say I think you may have taken littleshakers post the wrong way. Personally I thought it was a great post and it has actually really made me think about my own DD.

I might sod the star charts for a while and really concentrate on our relationship.

My 6 yr old DD is really getting into writing and reading so we have started writing each other notes. Just ever now and then I give her a letter to take to school that might say hey you hope you have a lovely dad I love you to the moon and back a million times and she will send a lovely reply back etc

I don't mean to offend, but I too agree with peckarollover and think that you might have taken littleshebears post the wrong way.

I read her post, as totally from the heart and only trying to help.

I agree. Nobody is apportioning blame here, are they?

Parenting techniques out of context of the relationship are almost meaningless.

I have just been doing the text for my site which has all been about explaining the ethos behind my training of behaviour management techniques and the message is very much that the techniques you use are about creating secure and confident children children who know their own and your limits. It is no good following a system or practise (such as 'naughty step') to the letter if that is all you are doing. You really do need to convey the reasons behind the technique.

This is another reason why I like teaching and using I messages so much. It feels odd to start with because it is all about validating and explaining your requests for certain behaviour - which many of us rarely do, we just expect the child not to interrupt or throw toys, etc. etc. - but once parents become used to saying "It makes me upset to see you doing X because..." it becomes a really valuable way of cultivating this mutual respect and kindness within a family.

Star charts are ok - I don't tend to advocate their use, but wouldn't rule them out. I didn't want to debate their validity (imo) in my earlier post to this thread as I felt many parents were using them effectively within their own familiesand liked them and succeeded with them, and that is really the point; you do what works for YOUR family. However, if they are used without the back up of a whole ethos of respect and consideration they become slightly abstracted and meaningless to the child. This can also create the perfect situation for unhealthy pressure to creep in. If all is reduced to a star on a chart and whatever reward that is associated with then you are achieving far less than you would by using a VARIETY of techniques to cultivate a respectful, trusting and caring environment for you and your children to co-exist within.

Phewwww!

My kids are all treated the same so how come dd2 is so different then.

I don't think i misunderstood the post, at all. My parenting technique is apparently to blame is basically what was said.

Is nice that you all seem to agree too.

Shan't bother posting on this thread again.

nutcracker - for whats it worth I think littleshebear was out of order. You parent as you see fit, what works for one def. doesn't work for all does it. Just hang in there, keep you chin up and smile.

after all, we can't all have perfect kids can we?

Nutcracker My ds is 4 - We are not getting on too great at the moment (a lot of the time I have to really try to love him and see his goodness) and i think its at least partly my behaviour towards him. I found littleshebears post helpful for myself

Please dont be offend Nutcracker- people are only trying to help you and in helping you some of their posts have helped me;

A valuable lesson i have learnt in my life recently is that in order to grow and learn and improve myself its going to be difficult and painful occasionally - Life is a challenge - Nobody said it was going to be easy and painless all the time

Littleshebear was trying to be helpful and avoid offence. I guess it's a sensitive thing for you hence the feeling it was a direct blame thing.

If it it your relationship with her that needs to change that doesnt make you a bad mum. Dont equate the two. When you watch these reality shows it is the parents who have to change their behaviour as much and even more so than the kids. That doesnt make them bad parents though. All children are different and need different responses and in the muddy waters that is parenting it is bloody difficult to work it out.

You are clearly a great mum who wants the best for all her kids and are struggling to in your eyes achieve this with your dd hence the emotions involved. Would it not be worth going back to basics and considering littleshebears post as someone who has been there themselves?

So many kids as someone said early dont have a mum who loves them to bits and wants the best for them that your kids are very lucky.

I agree with Hercules and the others that Littleshebear was trying to be sensitive about it and I felt she wrote that from the heart. She hit on something that I've found with DD and the reason why I stopped doing star charts, she got into only behaving well if she felt there was something in it for her which I didn't feel was very healthy for her so I've stopped doing them and found being consistent with clearly defined punishments for unacceptable behaviour, with unexpected treats thrown in when I feel appropriate.

Please don't take it heart Nutcracker, people just want to help as we have all been where you and DD are right now (and if someone hasn't then they are incredibly lucky). And you will come through this, it's those immortal words "just a phase" that make me want to hit something when I hear them and I'm in the middle of that particular phase. About a year ago I just didn't know what to do with my DD, I could hardly speak to her she annoyed me so much. Right now she's fantastic, does what I ask her to, thinks of others etc. And your DD will be. According to DD's teacher at the time it is completely that they play up at home and are angels at school.

Its sad that you are upset by littleshakers post - I feel sorry for LS too as I bet she will be mortified. She said "dont want to offend, im nto saying this to upset" etc etc a million times.

I think basically what she was saying is sod super nanny techniques sometimes and just concentrate on the interaction between you both. Not saying your a crap mum by any means (your quite obviously not!).

I consider myself to be a really great Mum, I really do but can hand on my heart say that sometimes if DD is one of her "phases" Im quick to scold, get sucked into being negative and generally spend most of the time waiting for the next battle, getting more and more exasperated when nothing I try works.

Please dont leave the thread, I have had threads like this about DD and found it valuable to turn things around.

I am really so sorry if I have offended you. Of course you must parent in whatever way you want, and I fully accept that other people have great success with techniques that never worked for me. It is because I tried to use the same techniques with my DS2 that I did with my other two children, and it didn't work, that I had to really think about DS2. And I did try to be stricter,and use star charts and so on, because I felt that certain people were blaming me for his behaiour,and it just didn't work. Eventually, after much thought, I have found a way that works for me. I just wanted to share that, and offer another point of view, and I am so sorry I have caused offence. I just felt that, for me, my relationship with ds2 had got into a cycle of him misbehaving, me reacting, and then not being as positive with him as I could have been. I am truly sorry if you felt I was saying it was all your fault.Obviously I do not know you, or how you interact with your daughter, and I obviously have been insensitive. I hope you will accept my apology and my very best wishes, because I do know how difficult and challenging children can be.