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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Nearly 9mo DD will NOT go to bed!

36 replies

TartyMcFarty · 21/11/2010 20:14

We're just muddling through with this really, but it's getting no better.

DD has never slept through the night, but at the moment is worse than ever - she usually ends up in bed with us and now pretty much refuses to go to bed at all.

I'm really concerned about her lack of sleep, not to mention desperate for some time just to switch off for a while, whilst she's in bed. My options are basically to go to bed with her, but that means my evening ends at 7-8pm, keep her up with us, which means lack of sleep for her, or leave her cry. She's currently been yelling for 15 mins with no let-up, though she's definitely tired. She sounds somewhere between apoplectic and heartbroken, if you can imagine such a thing!

Sleep training doesn't work as she won't calm down without BF (I'm trying to wean her onto formula) and anyway she starts again as soon as I put her down. CC wouldn't work for the same reasons.

The last couple of days she's even been hard work to get to bed for her daytime naps.

It sounds like I'm unsupported by DH but that's not the case - it's just that she won't calm down until she's with me. That said, my mum manages better than either of us. I'm back at work part time and am really struggling on the three days when I have to go to work.

Any advice please?

OP posts:

beebuzzer · 21/11/2010 20:23

I know how you feel,Ours has only recently started going through the night (and even now wakes for a drink) It is very difficult but the longer you leave it the worse it will get so try and do it now. She ha sprobably just got into the habit now and you need to try and break it for your own sanity. I know its contraversial, but the only thing we have been able to do is leave her to cry. 15 Mins is actually not that long (it seems like forever but we have had to do it for 1-2 hours at times) Keep checking on her (but try not to let her see you) make sure she isn't hungry,thirsty or wet etc.
See how it goes for a week and plan when you are going to do it.
It is heartbreaking but at the end of the day your daughter is probably overtired and irratable everyday and it would be better for her in the long run.

Original poster

TartyMcFarty · 21/11/2010 20:28

Grrr. She just dropped off, and because she was upside-down I tried to move her blankets over her and woke her again.

When you say 'do it now', do you mean leave her cry or stop feeding her, or both? You're right about her being overtired, though she has a lovely nature and in that sense it's better than it could be.

OP posts:

beebuzzer · 21/11/2010 20:29

Another thing (although I maybe shouldnt be saying this) that helped ours go to sleep was to give her her bottle when she was already in bed,switch off the light and go out.

Is she teething yet?

beebuzzer · 21/11/2010 20:32

No,tarty, Not about the feeding,I meant leave her to cry.(mine was always FF so didnt have the BF problem - that must be quite difficult) you could also leave a blanket that smells of you next to her in the cot.

Original poster

TartyMcFarty · 21/11/2010 20:38

You've just reminded me - she won't take a dummy but I've given her one to play with recently. Might try that if (when!) she wakes again.

She's got 6 teeth! Don't think there are any more coming at the moment.

OP posts:

beebuzzer · 21/11/2010 20:46

Oh wow, mine is 13 moths and only has four! Mine has a dummy for sleep only and it really has helped settle her. Sometimes it use to fall out and she would cry but when they get a bit older they can put it back in themselves. I am really jealous of parents of babes who sleep through really early on - so unfair. :( I used to get so worked up sometimes.

jetgirl · 21/11/2010 21:00

I have to say I totally disagree about leaving baby unattended with a bottle, far too risky in terms of choking.
I have a 3 yo who still doesn't sleep through, so I feel your pain! I bf until 23 months, and his sleeping did improve when I stopped, he was using the night feeds as comfort. Teething, colds, new foods all affected his sleep for the worse. I used no cry sleep which definitely helped, and while ds wakes once a night, he goes to bed happily without me (this took a long time though, and cc isn't for me as I find it distressing and we have an older dd who needs her sleep). It does get better, honest!

Original poster

TartyMcFarty · 21/11/2010 21:07

What's no cry sleep, is it a book? I don't like the idea of CC either, but on the other hand I feel that there's nothing else I can do to ensure she gets some sleep other than leave her cry a while.

How did you stop the comfort feeding at night? I agree, it's definitely a comfort thing but can't get around it.

OP posts:

beebuzzer · 21/11/2010 21:43

Jetgirl, my daughter has been walking and running around since she was 10 months. She has never choked (hence why we put them on their backs nowdays,rather than on their fronts) Of course you don't leave a small baby with a bottle, but once they are this age it is slightly different. It is not exactly unattended either. Her door is open and we are in the next room. You go by your instincts and by common sense. There are many things mothers do that other mothers think unreasonable but at the end of the day it is the mothers responsibility to take care of her child in the way she sees fit.

Shelly32 · 21/11/2010 22:00

Bit different as i had prem twins and they slept downstairs in moses basket (could keep room really warm) and i slept on couch for over 2 months. They woke every 3 hrs for food as tummies were so small. To get them to sleep longer we fed them gradually more and more in the day (they were bottle fed and i think they crave the closeness of mum at night,less if they are bottle fed) and i have to admit i did the whole 'controlled crying ' thing at night. It took about a week (my sis in law gave up and still to this day thinks i'm a witch for doing it) but it worked for me....
By the time they were 3/4 months and in our room they slept from 7ish-7ish. At the start they still had an 11pm feed but after a while we dropped it and upped their 6.45 feed. They were weaned early as that's what they recommend for prems so the circumstances are different but i think the controlled crying and the solid food really helped. Routine and preseverence!!

Shelly32 · 21/11/2010 22:07

Oh, gotta say it but i have to agree with Beebuzzer, of course you can't leave a young baby unattended with milk but many children/toddlers go to bed with milk and the age you allow them to do that is dependent on the child and your instincts as a mother.

jetgirl · 21/11/2010 22:11

No cry sleep is a book by Elizabeth Pantley. The book is a very gentle method and talks you through all sorts of sleep issues. It takes around 30 days so you have to persevere. I am a working mother too so I do sympathise.

Beebuzzer - as you say it's your choice and your decision, I am just saying I perceive there to be a risk in leaving a child that young unattended with a bottle and it is not something I would choose to do. Aso you yourself said maybe you shouldn't suggest it which makes me think you may perceive a risk, but perhaps I misunderstood what you meant there.

crikeybadger · 21/11/2010 22:18

The No Cry Sleep Solution is a book by Elizabeth Pantley. It's a gentler way of helping children to sleep than CC.

There is a 9 month sleep regression which could be making things even worse for your DD.

If you post this in the 'sleep' thread - you may get some more help. AngelDog is the guru of all things to do with sleep and the lack of it so she may have some good suggestions for you.

Good luck- you'll get there in the end

beebuzzer · 21/11/2010 22:19

I know some think CC is terrible but you have to realise too that you need to sleep well in order to be the best mother to them. Plus you are working.
Personally, I can't cope without my sleep and I would always be short tempered and tired when mine was up half the night, it was haing a negative effect on the whole family.
Now we are all much happier. Even babies know how to get their own way and I am starting to realise I need to show her who is boss.

Shelly32 · 21/11/2010 22:19

The biggest risk, i think, when it comes to giving a baby a bottle at night is tooth decay rather than choking...and the problem of the baby becoming too attached to having a bottle...but the bottle fairy..and dummy fairy takes care of these things

beebuzzer · 21/11/2010 22:22

I meant that I shouldnt write that on mumsnet because I knew I would get blasted! As I said I have no fear of my daughter choking as I am always around. At the end of the day babies lie down to BF don't they?

TheNextMrsDepp · 21/11/2010 22:25

I second the comment about giving a bottle at night being bad for teeth. If you haven't got into this habit, don't start it!

I have to say, CC worked for us. Popping in at regular intervals to lie dc down but without giving too much attention, it was tough at the time but worked very quickly.

beebuzzer · 21/11/2010 22:33

I give up! Ok Tarty best of luck with it and hope you get somewhere. We all do things differently and do the best we can.

ps: My daughters teeth get cleaned every night and she only has water to drink apart from her two lots of milk a day which is not given in a bottle with a teat but a trainer bottle so the milk is cosumed within about a minute or two. Happy now?

autodidact · 21/11/2010 22:34

I totally know that cross between apoplectic and heartbroken crying. Have so, so, so been there. Poor you. Much sympathy.

I think she probably doesn't know how to go to sleep without a breastfeed, so you probably need to teach her and imo that can't be done without some temporary distress. I wouldn't bother replacing the breastfeed sleep cue with something else such as a bottle or dummy. My advice would be to do wimps controlled crying instead. Go in every 5 minutes and check her and resettle her (if she's pulled herself up to standing) and say "shhh shhh sleeping time" or something similar and reassuring of your choice without picking her up. Tackle it one wake up at a time. We did this at around this age with our daughter. It worked wonders within a few nights (significantly better after just 1 night) and even though she has her moments (she's now 15 months) with night-waking, especially with trying to wake up at crack of dawn, it's never gone back to the hell that you describe where it just felt like there was no respite ever, all night every night. I'm still breastfeeding as well, so there's no need to stop with this sort of method, unless you want to for other reasons.

Shelly32 · 21/11/2010 22:40

CC is tough,heartbreaking sometimes when you hear them wailing and want to pick them up and cuddle them but babies are smart and they do learn quickly. Having the energy to make the most of your day with your children is far better than attending to their every cry at night and being too exhausted to have fun with them when they are awake in the day. My mum told me she and my dad had me in their bed until i was about 2yrs old and my sister in bed until about 4/5yrs... That's no good for anyone and looking back neither my sis or i can remember it/appreciate it, although my parents remember it!! I don't think they agreed with CC when we first tried it but are so impressed with how the girls sleep now, esp when we stay round theirs!!

Shelly32 · 21/11/2010 22:49

Beebuzzer, you're doing better than me!!! My girls clamp their mouths shut and wriggle for England when i approach with a toothbrush!!! Saw some great advice on how to get kids to allow u to brush their teeth when they are old enough to understand but at this age it feels like i'm torturing them!!!

beebuzzer · 21/11/2010 22:54

LOL That comment above was not aimed at you btw! I think its appauling when mums give their babies of over 6 months a bottle anyway. They should be drinking out of a cup by then!

whateverfloatsyourboat · 21/11/2010 22:55

When does she nap during the day? Definitely sounds like she's overtired, I'd work on shortening her awake periods, and probably try putting her to bed much earlier.

Sounds mad but my db had a phase of catnapping during the day at that age and I would end up putting him to bed at 6pm.

I also couldn't cc and didn't want to - but obviously you need to sort this out so you get some rest. Sleep issues are really stressful.

beebuzzer · 21/11/2010 22:59

Mine seems to quite like hers. I try and clean them for her then give it to her to do herself for a bit. (she only has four teeth though) :)
What advice did you read btw?

mamatomany · 21/11/2010 23:01

She needs at least two hours in the day to sleep well at night, mad as I know that sounds.
I also found it a hell of a lot easier to do a gentle version of CC during the day than at night when I'm knackered and would do anything to stop the howling.
Get the daytime nap without boob cracked first and then when the cot is not a frightening place to be it should work in the evening too.
Has she got a bed time routine ? I find bath, story, feed and bed a good habit to get into.
I start around 5pm aiming for a 6.30pm bedtime.

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