Sexual behaviour towards another child need advice urgently

[Worriedmum34758]

My DS (5) has came to me with something very worrying. He had a few friends over to play and he said that a girl (4) had "licked ***'s winkie". Im not sure what to do about this without causing a fallout (the girls mum is a friend). I do realise something has to be done but im not sure what. Please give me your advice.

Mathanxiety - I agree, the average 4 yo girl will have no inclination to do this, but that doesn't mean that a little girl who has done so has done it because of sinister reasons.

As for the logistics, it could quite easily be done. Children do not only mix at school. I regularly have my dc's friends over. One of DS(5yo) best friends is a girl. DH and I have had to talk to him about appropriate behaviour, because, as best friends of similar age, they are ideally situated to find out the differences between their bodies. Luckily this girls mother knows exactly what her dd is like, I know what my ds is like, they are normal, healthy children (if a little, um, spirited).

oh bugger off re good homes, sakura. the boy's parents are both close friends of mine and have been for 20 years, okay? they are not abusing their five year old boy.

this thread, all this paedo-panic on MN, it's making me sick tbh. and i must tell ALL my friends that their kids should be past their oral phase by now. hey fucking ho.

"and i think there is some projection going on here as well, sakura."

could you explain exactly what you mean by using that passive aggressive tone on a thread about child abuse?

"could i imagine him and dd and pals running round their house squealing and doing this licking game and then him doing his willie act and getting licked? i really could. they would be given short shrift by parents as well, if they were found. but if not, i'd hope that no one would call SS without speaking to his mother or another mother."

Aitch this is exactly what happened in the case I was on about before :(

"Like Aitch, my ds will lick anything he can."

Sorry! Meant your dd :o

"Most children of 4 have got past their oral phase"

But not all! DS was 8 before he stopped licking things! (but he's still normal)

bugger off yourself. I wasn't making any suggestions about your friends. I was questioning what you meant by "good homes" . It did sound rather American in its tone. Good, as in right wing, heterosexual, conservative, wealthy, white homes.

i have already said that i think that some professionals on here sway the debate to a degree that is unhelpful. so not passive aggressive at all, completely in line with what i have been saying.

It is not paedo-panic Aitch. If you read the threads, people are suggesting this needs investigation. No one can be sure what the child's history is, therefore we need to satisfy ourselves that nothing untoward is going on.
Better to have an investigation with no action needed than a child suffering without any help.

"It did sound rather American in its tone. Good, as in right wing, heterosexual, conservative, wealthy, white homes." fucking hell. talk about projection there. it was just shorthand for untroubled.

Sakura - there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that this is a case of child abuse

We have a thread where a boy has dropped a comment about a girl licking a boys winkie.
The child abuse has come from others who do not know the children in question, and certainly know bugger all about their background.

Have you seen your little girl lick a penis? Do you honestly believe she would, if someone dared her or under her own initiative? Do you honestly believe what you have typed or are you just saying this nonsense for the sake of argument? Were you ever a little girl yourself?

At about age 4 a lot of girls and boys have decided that the opposite sex has 'cooties' and are beginning to identify themselves as 'girls' or 'boys', prefer playing with other girls or other boys, and above all, have an inclination to avoid licking the bums of other children. There may be some exploration, some showing off of various bits and pieces, but licking -- no, that is not normal and not a normal part of exploration.

(Hotdogjumpingfrog the girl may or may not have been abused, I agree but the way to find this out, for her benefit, is to have the matter professionally investigated)

why are you asking me these questions, mathanxiety? i have given you plenty of information about what i think my dd is capable or not capable of. or was it that you just wanted to call me a liar but in a, ya know, sneaky kinda way?

Sexual abuse is a possibility so rather than let this be at least speak to the mum and make her aware of the situation and I would hint heavily that you think it needs to be addressed and not just ignored.My mum works in this field and this would be ringing alarm bells and at the very least someone 'outside' should be aware of this.

OP - if you need to do anything, talk to the parents of the children involved.

An investigation by SS may turn out to be necessary, but going on the information you've given, probably not.

Reporting this unnecessarily will have serious remefications (oh god, how do you spell that!) on the families involved. I know that for sure, I have seen it first hand. It affects the children, the parents, siblings, grandparents, friends.

As I said before. One incident does not make it abuse.

Mathanxiety - no my dd would never do this. Howeer, ds's friend, a little girl, most definitely would.
As I said, dh and I had to have words about appropriate play, but there's no fucking way I'm going to say what about, as you lot would report me!

"and i think there is some projection going on here as well, sakura." (Aitch)

In light of TheLibster's reprehensible nudge nudge wink wink effort, I would like to hear your explanation of this remark too.

I have reported both of your posts.

And yes, most children will have developed beyond their oral phase by age 4. You can believe me if you like, or put it down to MA telling you what's what. There are of course exceptions to every 'norm'. Doesn't mean the norm doesn't exist.

'It is not paedo-panic Aitch. If you read the threads, people are suggesting this needs investigation. No one can be sure what the child's history is, therefore we need to satisfy ourselves that nothing untoward is going on.
Better to have an investigation with no action needed than a child suffering without any help."

AMEN, Scurryfunge.

yes, when children are involved, better to err on the side of caution, rather than stick our fingers in our ears in a "lah lah sexual abuse doesn't exist, except in the minds of mad people" type of way

Reporting to the mother is a good idea precisely because this is out of the ordinary behaviour for children (despite what all the mothers on here whose 4-year old children lick penises)

och i'm leaving this one now. i have already explained at length that i feel a little professional knowledge is skewing the advice on here. so projection in EXACTLY the manner that sakura used it wrt the policeman. report away, math, you are making yourself look paranoid. i would never be so crass or cruel as to assume sexual abuse in another poster or to refer to its possibility, but i am not surprised that you like to think so, given our disagreements recently.

i think that on the basis of this and the other thread where someone asking about their child's intimate hygiene was immediately labelled a paedophile troll by many of the same posters as on this one, MNHQ has a big paedo-panic problem on its hands.

it's very worrying for people who actually want good advice, but i suppose it's to be expected that the board responses will become more hysterical and less reasoned the more people it attracts, as each poster feeds off the heightened energy of the p.p and a tabloid swirl is created.

of COURSE the OP should mention it to a parent before putting in a call to SS. if THEY want to call SS, that is their business. taking third-hand information to an already stressed agency is a terrible idea.

Aitch, still dragging up previous threads [yawn]. You missed the point on that one too.

Since when is it ok on Mumsnet to accuse posters of projection where possible child sexual abuse is concerned?

What is being said here is "Shut the fuck up, your views are obviously skewed" -- is this really acceptable?

"it's very worrying for people who actually want good advice, but i suppose it's to be expected that the board responses will become more hysterical and less reasoned the more people it attracts, as each poster feeds off the heightened energy of the p.p and a tabloid swirl is created. "

Spare us the sanctimonious drivel and your worries about people looking for good advice. Hysterical? Less reasoned? Paranoid? WTF.

Your attitude towards posters who may or may not have been victims of child sexual abuse is scurrilous. I am really gobsmacked here. Who the fuck do you think you are?

Good riddance. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

OK,

I've namechanged for this as I'm not entirely sure I would like this snippet of information to follow my regular name around forever, but I feel compelled to post. When I was about 5/6 my best friend licked my vagina. She wasn't being abused, I wasn't being abused, I don't know why we did it. I once watched another friend do a poo. I don't know why, but we were all normal little girls from normal homes.

I'm not sure why the OP hasn't returned to this thread.

I think thelibster needs to apologise for the, quite frankly, shocking "and there may be something quite tragic in your own experience which leads to you being this way" aimed at mathsanxiety.

I think everyone on this thread could do with a little more information from the OP, alas, I think this is unlikely to be forthcoming.

thanks, Namechanged,
However your experience does not automatically cancel out the possibility that something untoward has happened to the little girl in the OP>

But we are all agreed that we don't have enough inormation, one way or another,

In light of this, the best conclusion is that the OP should mention it to the mother

And I agree with you about libster's attacks on mathanxiety

math, you need to calm down. read the thread. sakura said the policeman who shooed me and my friends out of his house was projecting because of his job, i agreed because of some of the terrible things that he had seen and said i thought that was happening here as well. lisa123, for example, said that in all her years working with kids she had never heard of one licking cock. i made the point about doctors, that they see a lot of sick people. i used projection only in that sense, in exactly the manner that sakura did.

i would NEVER make a comment designed to embarrass or hurt anyone who has been through child sexual abuse, and i am horrified that you think i would. especially given that i have already made myself clear on the matter so many times.

your best conclusion, and mine, sakura. until recently the thrust of the thread was very much in favour of placing a call to SS.

Aitch, you made a passive agressive comment about "somebody" projecting on this thread.

"and i think there is some projection going on here as well, sakura. "

Not the same as me analyzing a scenario you brought up about a third person, is it.