This is what I don't understand.

[seeker]

You think of a name you want to use, but you are worried enough about the teasing potential of whether you are "brave" enough that you come on a the internet and ask a group of random strangers what they think.

Surely, if you have concerns (and posting about it means you do) then you just don't do it?

Yes, the chances are that your child won't be teased, but why run the risk?

Yes, by the time your child is applying for jobs maybe everyone will be called by a random collection of letters or a geographical feature so employers will no longer make judgments about people based on their names. But this may not have happened, so, once again, why risk it?

And yes, people will always find something to tease people about, but why hand them the opportunity on a plate?

Yes, your child might be a strong, confident person who can carry off their unusual name and love it, but he or she might be quiet, timid and unconfident, and may find it a burden to be called Basingstoke-Montmorency. Again, why risk it.

Because none of the other people on this thread have stated that I said all children with unusual names will be bullied (or teased unmercifully - I do actually think there is a difference). You did.

being teased unmercifully is one of the 'elements' of bullying...

"but the everyday picking on people, and the expectation that this would probably be a part of a child's school experience from age 4 on"

This is not my experience of British schools either. I do worry that one school near me needs to crack down on the "ginger2 thing, but there is no such issue in my DCs school (although less red haired children for some reason). American schools have very different hierarchies, and a different kind of bullying, but there is still bullying (that is what my US friends would say).

I gave my kids fairly normal names, because they were the ones we liked. In fact for DD2 we gave her a name we knew was too popular, because we couldn't think of another we liked. I don't think names particularly get kids teased. Although I always smile at the virtue ones, as I am a believer in Murphy's law (so Hope turning out depressive etc.).

So you do agree that you are only directing your comments at men then?

Please 'copy and paste' (I know you want to) the bit where I state that you said all children with unusual names will be bullied.

Other people have said similar things - I repeat, there are many people who have said the same thing.

But once again, I notice that you fail to address many of the other points raised. Why?

At my DC's school there's a brother and sister called John and Mary.

Now the school goes from 4-18 so a few thousand kids yet they are the only John and Mary in the entire school.

So maybe John and Mary are the ultimate unusual names.

good point archstanton, I think names do evolve alongside society and fashion. Just see the amount of threads asking for grandparents name as inspiration to have "unusual" first names, it is at the same a bid to have classic name AND unusual one even though name not that unusual IYSWYM.

"Almost as ridiculous as saying that every child with an unusual name will be bullied. This is not a fact, it is an opinion, which I might add, many people on this thread have experience to the contrary."

A nice bit of c and p for you LuluF.

And if you can be bothered to go back down the thread, you will discover that you are one of the only people to challenge me personally on this one - and the only one to deny my personal experience and to misrepresent what I said. That's why I am addressing you by name.

And I think (not sure -can't be bothered to check) you were the only person put forward the view that people with "ordinary' names run the risk of losing their individuality and becoming clones. I couldn't let that go unchamllenged!

I think you're right, too gorionine and archstanton - often the best names are names that are classic (but I bet they were at least in the top 10 4 or 5 decades ago) - they never really date - they're sort of timeless. I think the names John and Mary are good examples.

I love Mary but couldn't have it with one of our other name choices - and I can't think of another that I know under 60. John's not a name I particularly like - though there is nothing wrong with it - it's a bit of an overused family name (and many of its derivations) but I have seen a real increase in its usage in the last year - so, in this region at least, I predict that it might end up being the male version of Grace. But yes - 'unusual' as in 'under-used' is always good.

my DD has 2 Graces in her class..

seeker - you keep saying that I stated you said 'all children with unusual names will be bullied' - the bit you copied and pasted does not say that.

I did not deny your personal experience at all. You are making that up.

As I said - and you know it - I had read another thread and was paraphrasing what someone else said. But I cannot see how me using that to emphasise my point, is ANY different to you saying that children 'run the risk of being picked on' because they have an unusual name. Neither is fact, both are opinion.

And if I'm one of the only people to challenge you personally on this - why not also include the other person, too?

Ultimately, I think you took exception to my first comment where I said,

'I've been 'told off' by you, seeker for my name ideas on previous posts, and (in the nicest possible way, I promise) your opinion doesn't bother me all that much, because you are a random stranger I'm never going to meet.'

And I think you've been trying to prove a point ever since.

Well, I'm not going to let you bother me any more. I shall continue with this thread as I find it interesting, but I'm so bored with your comments which are directed at me.

If I do start a new thread, asking for opinions on names, I'd really appreciate it if you didn't post. I don't particularly value your opinion - and as someone else posted on here, you are extremely biased against what you consider to be unusual names and your opinion can't really be valued because of that.

I know 4 children personally who have been made very unhappy because of their "unique" names.

If you know 4 children personally who have been made into clones because they have a name that someone else in their school shares, then I will agree that there is some similarity!

It was actually that statement that made me see red - I hadn't even noticed the sentence you thought upset me until you p and pd it!.
it's so disparaging and judgmental of most people "You must be boring and want your child to be a clone if you don't call him or her Sunset or Vladivostock"

And I promise on my honour never ever ever to go on a thread you're on again. Even the literary name one where I think we agree!

seeker - do you think that what you said did't make me see red? Or perhaps many other people? Why do you not think that when you were saying that (I'm paraphrasing again) that it's irresponsible and bizarre to want to give your children unusual names in case they get picked on that that's not disparaginng and insulting? I doubt I'm the only one who felt like that. Why can you not see that what you said is equally inflammatory?

And for the record - I don't actually happen to think that naming your child something popular would make them into a clone - it was for the purpose of the argument - to counter your stance. I wouldn't personally choose to name my child something that was in the top 20 - but I respect other people's right to and wouldn't criticise it.

And I never said we should never post on the same thread, just I'd rather you didn't post on one I'd started if I was looking for opinions. You've made that bit up.

For what it's worth, I apologise for the offense my posts and commets have caused you.

'comments', obviously.

The only boy I can think of (off the top of my head) who was bullied at school was called John.

There were a few children with unusual names (e.g. Jezra, Alaric) who weren't bullied at all.

As others have said, it's great to able to sense-check names on MN, in case pg hormones are messing with your mind or in case others spot a problem/connotation with a name that you haven't.

Likewise, sometimes you can err too much on the side of caution but when 80% of posters say that they like the name and only 20% don't then it could give you the confidence to go for something that you otherwise wouldn't have chosen.

And far better to ask MNetters than family members with an agenda!

That's it , MrsWoolf - sometimes you don't hear something, can't see it (like you can never spot your own typos!) and other people's opinions are great for that - especially if you're not related to the people you're asking, or, even better, they're complete strangers as generally it's impartial.

One thing that I think would be beneficial when posting is to put surnames up - for instance - my DH suggested Pheobe to me today (not my taste, but I like to encourage him to make some sugestions!). Fine, except it is utterly ridiculous with our surname -he just hadn't said the two together. But surnames will rarely be posted - and that's understandable.

But surely, at some point, names that are deemed fairly commonplace now - like Grace, Jack, Phoebe etc, did seem way out 20 years ago and who's to say that the names people are mulling over to see if they are brave enough, aren't going to be those names of the future?

When I say way out - I mean unusual for the time - I realise that they are older names and had been popular previously.

wrt US schools bullying occasionally, yes; expectation of teasing about names or red hair or other aspects of physical appearance that seem to be hot buttons in the UK not in my experience (racist slurs , occasionally).

I did not know a single parent who ever considered the possibility of avoiding teasing when choosing a baby's name in the US. Maybe because it's a multicultural society, especially in urban areas or the suburbs, and your child is likely to sit beside children from all over the world in class and at lunch, and have teachers from all over the place too. Names are not necessarily going to make you stand out in the US. Personal hygiene (lack of it) will kill you though, socially. Spots accompanied by BO don't even bother. Spots on their own if you smell clean and you change your clothes every day fine, mostly.

I don't think that Ethel, Hilda etc will be the names of the future-they will have a quick vogue and be gone. I have never met an elderly lady called Ethel who liked it! My mother has one of the 'old lady names', that people profess to love on here and she hated it as 5 yrs and she hates it now! People ought to be warned before they lumber their DCs with them. In 20 yrs time people will be saying that Brenda and Nigel are wondeful names!
Jack and Grace are classic names-they were not way out 20 yrs ago, 50 years ago or 100 years ago-neither will they be way out in 20 yrs time.

How narrow minded.

Do you expect your children to live their entire lives in a primary school in a parochial English town?

My first daughter's name raised a few mild eyebrows in the UK but it's really common in the US. My second daughter's name is very 'out there' but she loves it. No-one has ever said anything mean to her about it afaik, but she gets a lot of compliments and is proud of it. My son's name is very unusual here but would be more normal in the UK.

But quite honestly, no-one gives a shit in California. ALL the kids have ethnic or made-up or different names. Kids called things like Clash, Driver, Blue... When a third of the class are Chinese, a third Hispanic and the rest made up of various European or African-American descent, names all end up pretty unique and personal.

I struggle to understand the 'fashion' of naming. Why on earth do you name your children something which will obviously date them and mean nothing other than 'you quite liked the sound of it'?

piscesmoon - I corrected myself - I said not way out - just unusual for the time. There was a time when children were not called Jack and Grace and Pheobe. They were not popular and they sounded strange after all the names we'd been used to in the 70s and 80s. They may be timeless - but they certainly were not usual. So maybe it won't be Ethel and Hilda - but I have noticed a renewed interest in Beryl on a number of threads recently - a name I personally don't like, but who's to say that won't be the next Grace? Maybe people felt like that about Pheobe? Just because we can't really imagine it happening doesn't mean it won't.

Good point, Carmen!

Neither dh nor I are English (we're French and German) and, having lived in different countries makes you realise how 'narrow minded' some (British) posters on here are with regards to 'judging' people based on their names.

While we're very happy here in the UK at the moment, I would love my children to have the opportunity to spend some time abroad while they're growing up, to see that othere societies have different values/views on things.