Demise of the ‘chav’ name?

[stilllill]

I’ve lived on the same council estate for years. When I was younger every girl was Keeley, Courtney, Charmaine, Chantelle, etc.
Boys were Tyler, Liam, Scott, Riley, Bailey, etc.
Knew 3+ of each in school, and these names generally made our class very obvious.

Now I’ve noticed that the children on my estate have completely different names.

Girls:
Iris, Francesca, Esme, Belle and Elizabeth

Boys:
Roy, Jasper, Anthony, Isaac, Jacob

I think these are really timeless, classic names!

I know MN is very middle class, but anyone else noticed this change?

"This is fascinating, I presume this is what happened with Burberry for example?"

Doesn't happen with everything though, does it?
Millions of working and middle class men called George doesn't stop it being a royal name, for example.

It's possible to talk about trends in names across generations and classes without sneering and OP is talking about where she herself is from.

I do find some of the comments odd e.g. people talking of using surnames as first names when so many surnames are men's first names to begin with.

I don't see Louise and James as upper class at all.
Henry can be any class if used as Harry.

I'm not a monarchist, but I have to admit that some of the most equal societies have monarchies, eg the Scandinavian ones.

@theduchessofspork , they would have been LMC/WC names in my age group. I think we only had one Julia and no Alexandras.

@Gwenhwyfar , the royal family needed the monarch's approval for the names of their children. The names of royal babies tend to become more popular in that generation.
Traditionally, surnames were patronymic or occupation. James, Duncan or Allen are first names used as surnames, as opposed to Jackson, Cooper or Hunter, which are surnames used as first names

When she went on Good Morning to say you shouldn't name your child after a country, but then admitted her daughter was called India or something?

Alexandra sounds posh to me.

You're right that the thread is interesting, which is why I hope it won't get pulled down because some posters aren't happy with some others' posts.

I think names have got more diverse. So it is harder to associate a particular name with a particular social standing.

To me names when through a period, maybe in the early 00s where you were getting some very definitive names that were associated with lower social classes (won't mention any to avoid annoying people). But now the lower social classes have branched out and call their kids a wider variety of different names which make it more difficult to associate a particular name with that social class.

But I think the lower classes definitely do not normally use "traditionalist" names, and there has been quite a comeback in that area of older traditionalist names into the middle class naming in recent years, so for example a load of similarly named Claires being replaced with more Phoebes, Elsa, etc etc which has increased the diversity base.

Ultimately a name is supposed to be a unique identifier. When I look back at my family history there are only about 4 male names used. So the idea of having more diversity in names I think is useful so people can actually tell who they are talking about !

Agreed!

I thought it was purely apocryphal.

Babies called Nevaeh in England & Wales since 1996 (darkgreener.com)
Babies called Neveah in England & Wales since 1996 (darkgreener.com)
@Ameanstreakamilewide , apparently not, and some are boys.

I'll be damned! I've learned something today.

Who are the 'lower classes'?

This thread is not interesting. It's just sneery.

I do find it interesting that even though many here appear unable to understand what I mean by chav, or who is meant by lower class, would recognise it instantly should someone ask them to live in my area, or ask them to send their children to a school round here

So you class yourself as a 'chav' then? Because you live where the 'chavs' live.

@Ibizabar No, I don’t think anyone classes themselves as that but I’m pretty sure many others would call me a chav.

Me too, but there's one in my daughter's school...

Well that's kind of my point. The fact that some people would class you as a chav because you live on a CH.

I don't mind being called a bit chavvy (adjusts hoop earrings and faux fur hood) and I think for boys names it's all Jack the Lad, Peaky Blinder type names like Reggie, Ronnie, Arthur, Vinnie and for gals it's more like Nan names like Evie, Elsie ('our Els'), Iris, Stella, Dottie, Saffie, Maude, Mabel, Annabelle and that.

I find this interesting too.

You don't sound like a chav to me. You can use a subjunctive, for starters.

I would consider a WAG type, or an "influencer" living in a massive gated mansion where everything is grey and white and shiny to be a chav, and I'd expect them to call their children things like Moomoo-mollimae and Bo-Beaubo.

Annabelle was quite a popular name at my DD's school, so maybe that's another name which has made the leap.

Other popular girls' names among my DD's peers were Florrie/Flossie/Flopsy (Florence), Bibby/Libby/Lizzie (Elizabeth), Hattie/Rattie (Harriet), Fifi (Sophia), Izzy (millions of those), Tilly (millions of those too), Lucy/Lucinda, Charlotte, and the usual Emilys, Olivias, Alices, Jessicas etc.

My DSs' school went for things like Sholto, Lysander, Mungo etc, padded out with a billion Henrys, Williams, Georges, Fredericks, Charlies, Alexanders, Thomases etc.

Welcome to Mumsnet lol Google the term "champagne socialist" it sums up half of Mumsnet users 😂 not necessarily a bad thing though you just have to be careful using certain words or they will derail your thread moaning about it

I must admit that some of the comments here make me uncomfortable.

My own two penneth is that I love names, I love listening to why people chose them, fascinated by who goes for what, whether history, geography, sounds or associations is what led the choices. And I am loving the breadth in names at the moment. As a former FirstnameInital in a class of many, I appreciate the variety even in the top 100. As in traditional, modern, nature and nickname all cluster as the most popular and I'm pretty sure transcend class a fair bit.

I've no idea where I stand. My children have so called pretentious names, very middle upper class, at least traditionally but are creeping up the charts. Possibly we are viewed as try hards or chav wannabes. I also have a double barrel name, but the motivation was feminism there. I imagine people assign that whatever meaning they want but that's on them.

I don't really care though. The names were chosen with love and have a meaning and history that is important to me. Other people love names I find vile, like Olivia but I recognise we all have different taste and that name might be wondrous to them. I wonder if not caring what other people motivates others to choose names that aren't approved of and this spirit is more alive in some class groupings than others.

@sandalsinthebin

I guess it also depends on the name. Shufflebottom and Ramsbottom are fairly common surnames where I grew up!

There were several Smiths, Walkers and Whittakers. Even a Feather and a Widdop - although when I bumped into Widdop a few years back he was using his middle name.

I have no opinion on names. I come from a very multicultural area and I’m used to all different names from different countries as well as spelling variations of more common names in Britain.

Can I ask, when you’re picturing these so called “chav names” on “chav children”, are these children all typically English? I saw a comment upthread that complained about “chav names” being spelt with “qu” (I can’t remember the example) and it made me think of all the black Caribbean girls I went to primary school with with names like “Shaniqua” - certainly not “chavs” as you call them, but such names are often used as a resistance to European standards. Also I’ve come across Turkish girls with names like “Hazal” - not a “yooneek” (as someone upthread called it) spelling of “Hazel” but simply a Turkish spelling. These are just two examples, there are plenty of others.

So are these “chav names” limited to white British children or are you just projecting your Anglo-centric standards onto children whose backgrounds you may know little about?