Saoirse?

[NameNameNameNames]

Follow on from my Isla thread, another name I have in mind is Saoirse.

Sister would still be Hazel, and there’s very little chance of the name being mispronounced

I personally wouldn't use an Irish name for my child. I don't really like them. They are fine for other people . But if I had a girl I'd call her something nice and plain and sensible. Thats my style.

Maith thú Sparklecats!
The poem challenges the concept of freedom without boundaries and says he will embrace rules and tradition, the routines of church. He says there is no limit to imagination and no rest to be had.

A Leaving Cert poem many people studied.

Irish names can’t be ‘nice and plain and sensible’? I can assure you I have the ultimate ‘nice, plain and sensible’ Irish name.

It’s been bugging me why so many I knew socially didn’t do Irish at secondary level or didn’t do it for leaving cert… I was thinking they couldn’t possibly all have been special needs… I’m sure I’d have noticed that!!

And then I realised!! - Private school, and in some cases (historically) Protestant private school.

They wouldn’t have had to follow the State curriculum.

And you can skip the exam even in state schools…

I was starting to think I was losing my marbles.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/why-do-so-many-leaving-cert-students-skip-the-irish-exam-1.3827075

They all went to Trinity, DIT or studied in the U.K. so wouldn’t have needed Irish

Phew I am relieved my recollections are not barmy.

They are, a little though.

The vast majority of LC students do Irish. Under 16% of students don't, and at least 70% of those to do on the basis of a health exemption eg dyslexia, or not having studied it prior to moving to Ireland, by a certain age.

Most Protestant and private schools do offer Irish. They are required to follow the State curriculum too, I've no idea where you got that idea!

Your previous posts saying many people didn't study it at second level makes no sense. A small number will drop Irish on the basis that they don't need it to matriculate, and in many instances now, Irish is considered alongside modern European languages, for the purpose of matriculation.

@Sparklecats

You are possibly thinking of independent schools. There are fewer than 60 in Ireland. These are not funded by the Department of Education.

In private schools, the teachers are paid by the State. They do follow the national curriculum.

You seem a bit confused!

And sorry, finally, most of the independent schools are primary schools. They aren't required to follow the curriculum, they receive no departmental finding.

However, they are usually linked to private fee-paying secondary schools that do receive state funding. In practical terms, they will follow the national curriculum, as otherwise, they'll end up with children struggling to find a suitable secondary or trying to adapt to a school following the curriculum.

You are therefore talking about a tiny number of schools & it seems unlikely your friends all went there.

the reason Irish names have many spellings is Irish spelling has been revised several times since it was designed in the 4th century. The language has developed and sounds changed.
Medb = Old Irish
Méadhbh = Classical
Méabh = Modern

That's not true @SunnyFog at least in your explanation of Maedhbh (another spelling!)

It's a lot more to do with the oral nature of the language, and the different dialects - there are just multiple spellings of certain names, they are not necessarily time specific. Some Irish names also became anglicised, while still 'Irish' eg Maeve, my native Irish-speaking grandmother's name.

@EarringsandLipstick

I did clarify my previous post to say “by the end of secondary” most would drop the language and not be using it.

Poor choice of words on wouldn’t follow the national curriculum what I meant was it may be optional rather than compulsory? I’ve got the idea that Irish, while offered, may not be compulsory in a fee paying private school via googling the internet tbh because I am still baffled by how so many I personally knew didn’t do it/dropped half way through secondary/didn’t do the exam.

Accept that this particular cohort may be representative of posh areas south dub and Wicklow and not of the whole of Ireland.

But it is puzzling me, as I don’t think they were all special needs. Private fee paying schools is the only thing I could come up with, when I googled it stated this but posted here for further clarification??

Note I am only trying to work out the educational dynamics of the social groups I was in, not transpose that their experience would be applicable in all of Ireland. Clearly not.

I’ve got the idea that Irish, while offered, may not be compulsory in a fee paying private school

No, not any more so than a non-fee paying school.

If teachers are paid by the department, they are required to follow the curriculum

particular cohort may be representative of posh areas south dub and Wicklow

I know this cohort very well & have not come across any evidence of under-representation in Irish.

The independent schools are across Ireland, not Dublin-based (in fact there's literally only a couple in Dublin)

I think you just happen to know a small group who for one reason or another didn't do Irish. It's reasonably common to get an exemption, it's not described as 'special needs' by the way.

Your earlier posts were wildly inaccurate, btw.

@EarringsandLipstick I didn’t say all of them about a quarter to half of them didn’t make it to doing leaving cert Irish. Which gave me the impression that it was quite a common thing but obviously it isn’t.

I realise it is called an exemption….. the people involved were Irish born and had learnt Irish in primary, so the only option for them getting an exemption would be that they had special needs (autism/dyslexia)… which I doubt would be the case for all. So was trying to work out was it that they attended fee paying schools.

I suppose I will never know as not been in touch for over a decade.

Thanks for the clarification.

But I do know that kids don’t “have” to because I knew several whose parents opted them out. Vast majority will take part and then drop it by secondary. But it isn’t compulsory like maths would be.

Just for clarity, Sparkle, this is what I'm referring to.

It's wrong.

You didn't clarify it later you just referred to exemptions, then private schools.

I still don't know what you meant by 'vast majority will take part & then drop it by secondary'.

Anyway, you have the correct info now; I expect it was just a small number of friends who for one reason or another didn't take Irish.

Yes I'm from the private school in South county Dublin set and everyone did Irish unless they'd grown up out of the country. That was in a Catholic school but I wouldn't have thought Catholic Vs Protestant makes a difference in that sense. It's not like (the many many many) South county Dublin Protestants identify as British, they're just as Irish as the Catholics.

As I said I now live in NI and have a friend who is also from Dublin but Protestant - she has Irish language art up in her house and her DD has an Irish name. No difference in the Irishness of our upbringings. She does break the NI equality monitoring forms though, they don't tend to understand a Protestant from ROI

Translation of the poem Saoirse.

https://www.poetic-voices.com/poets/sean-o-riordain-56932409-31b5-47b1-91c1-16d7a9b2560d/poems/saoirse/readings/286

@EarringsandLipstick

If you look a few posts below I clarified what I meant by the second sentence which was written quickly.

What I meant was that most would take part and then drop it by the end of secondary. Ie have no further use of it.

Here is a screenshot of me correcting what I’d written - I do not have edit function on mobile.

But unless I've missed it, you didn't correct even your first or last sentence? Both completely wrong too?

Anyway this is hardly pertinent to the OP's question about the name Saoirse so I'll leave it there.

But just about your correction - I mean, the vast amount of students drop every subject at the end of secondary school, surely?

Bar the few who study certain subjects directly at university.

So much back-pedalling.

No they don't drop every subject at the end of school.

Take maths - it's used in many careers: accounting, finance banking.

English - is used in journalism, marketing, advertising careers.

Where do people use Irish after school. ? It is a complete waste of time.

There is no way it should be a mandatory subject. No way.

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam.

Good for me to see that the Irish I learnt is till in my brain! I understood that. You said "a country without a language is a country without a name".

I have to say I disagree with you politely Jane. It's an interesting one to debate.

I think if children weren't forced to learn the language at school, the language would still be there.

I think the government should weigh up the pros and cons of : is making children learning Irish for 12 years - actually harming their education? Couldn't it be introduced as an optional module.

I don't know anyone that enjoyed learning Irish. It's the way that it is forced on people. If people had options to do it or not they would enjoy it

While I agree it could be taught in a better way I don't agree that it affects your education as learning a language is good for the old brain cells. I mean look at me

Where do people use Irish after school. ? It is a complete waste of time.

I can't quite believe you wrote that.

You think that having learnt our native language for 14 years is a waste of time? That the ability to understand how language has formed, placenames came about, read the top level of official signage (now mandatory to be as Gaeilge) is all a waste?

Not to mention the number of jobs, my own included, that require a minimum level of Irish.

There is a whole amount we learn at secondary school we will never use again, depending on our further study and career choice. It doesn't make it a 'waste' 😟

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