Pretentious?

[SummaLuvin]

I see a number of names being knocked or dismissed here as certain posters deem them pretentious. Names like Aloysius, Lysander, Montgomery, Peregrine…

I guess this post has four questions/discussion points.

1. What makes a name pretentious?
2. Why does pretentious = unusable?
3. Surely by marking these names as off limits to ‘normal’ people they keep they air of pretension indefinitely, wider use will water down the preconceived notions about them?
4. I see a significantly larger amount of boys names labelled this way than girls, I wonder why that is?

Really interesting post! Especially as a lot of the names I like are often called pretentious.

1. I think it's a name which isn't in common use whose origin (or where it's known from in the UK if it's international) is from a more 'esoteric' background. Mythology, theatre, books etc. Lots of Shakespearean names on pretentious threads

1. This is one I wish I had an answer for. I think it’s self fulfilling. Names are pretentious because they are aren’t widely used and they aren’t widely used because they are pretentious. I wish names weren’t so socially charged and people could choose Ptolemy or Kayden without having any social judgment for that. But that’s not the way the world is and as a name is something you give to someone else and it’s one of the first pieces of information people give away there is an advantage to that being more neutral.

1. That’s definitely a thing. I think there’s a Freakonomics chapter on it. Names used by the upper class are taken by an aspirational middle class and the name filters down the classes. The example I think they give is Daniella, but more modern example are probably names like Arabella and Hugo. They still have something of ‘posh’ reputation but they are both around the top fifty and rising and the perceived ‘poshness’ starts to decrease. I think Ophelia is another example of this happening.

1. The sweet spot of 'not popular, but not bizarre' is much smaller for boys than girls, so names are more easily called precious, where an equivalent girls name might be “classic and underused”. My own list goes from Henry to Lysander with very little in between stylistically. Elizabeth and Sophie's brothers might be called George and Alexander, but so are Cecilia, Juniper, Valentina and Winter's brothers. Possible related, but my personal experience is that men are more classic in their naming tastes than women. Certainly in experience, most people I know will say their husbands vetoed a lot of their more interesting and unusual names. Also maybe related that in general men’s fashion is more conservative than women's fashion so there's something of societal precedent for women having more options in the 'normal' category than men.

Very long response, but I think this is really interesting discussion. Ultimately for me it comes down to the fact that I don't think baby names should be off limits due to perceived pretentiousness but I don't want make my children martyrs for the cause.

I don't personally find any name pretentious - or "try hard" is another slur that often seems to come up with the more uncommon boys names especially. I tend to either like or dislike names based on their sounds or personal associations to me.

But I think it happens because statistically people in general are less "brave" with boys names than with girls (likely because they worry more about teasing). And also there are more longer (3/4 syllables plus) or classical origin girls names in wide/popular use than boys ("pretentious" seems to especially be applied to classical or longer length names).

However I do think parents need to consider how their children might feel too - not only what names they like best personally. Some places/social circles are much more conservative/"popular" naming than others and if your child is shy he might not appreciate being named say, Ptolemy if all his peers are multiples of Harry, George, Thomas, Jack etc - so in this case I'd suggest saving Ptolemy for a middle name and finding a "middle ground" first name they like instead (in terms of how unusual the name is).

I was just coming here to say please don't call your child" Pretentious" 🤣🤣

Ps basically, any names that have traditionally been used by the aristocracy are seen as pretentious. But it takes hardly any time for opinions to change. 10 years ago Sebastian, Rupert, Augustus (Gus), Aurelia, Ophelia, Miranda were seen as very pretentious, but they're pretty common across the board now.

Of a heritage/ culture or background that isn’t yours or your partners, 3-4 syllables and purposely complicated to pronounce

Thanks for your detailed reply @toastofthetown, you make some very interesting point I hadn't considered. Name origin being one - I guess the arts haven't been the most accessible to working class families in the UK historically, so it's logical that names with that background would be used far less by them as they are less likely to come across them.

I also agree that, despite loving some 'pretentious' names, I wouldn't feel it's fair to make my child one of the trailblazers.

I thought you meant you wanted to call your child "Pretentious"! lol

1. I think boys are less likely to have unusual names as anything unusual tend to either "common" (shock horror) or wet (may as well just advertise that you want him to have his head flushed every day). Whereas uncommon girls names are "beautiful'. Except a few where they are seen as posh girls (which is no where near as socially dire as to be wet).

Horatio
Marmaduke
Gawain
Merlin
St John
Magnus

When DS was a wee lad over a quarter of a century ago:
Hugo
Hector
Caspar
Xavier
Tristan
Sebastian

Cicely, Mabel, Christabel, Mirabel, Xanthe, Araminta, Verity, Ophelia, - all dd's contemporaries among the more popular: Alice, Jess, Olivia, Isabel, Mathilda, Georgia, Flora, etc.

Usually names are pretentious because they have been chosen to be niche and come from literature or classical history. Often quite long name as well (3+ syllables).

It’s that studied nicheness that makes them unusable. They come across as out of the ordinary in an exclusionary way. No one wants their kid to have Jacob Rees-Mogg vibes.

If Ptolemy and Lysander become popular like Arabella and Aurelia have done to some extent, parents after a pretentious name will just crack open the Iliad again to look for something else.

In general people are more conservative with boys names - the most common names are given to a greater percentage of boys than girls.

British obsession with class

1. What makes a name pretentious?

On this board, many posters seem to assume that the OP is from the same cultural background as them, and if a name is perceived to have higher social status, then they will call it "pretentious" or "try-hard".

1. Why does pretentious = unusable?

Names can give away information about the person. A pretentious name is perceived to be giving out false information, it's a kind of social fraud.

1. Surely by marking these names as off limits to ‘normal’ people they keep they air of pretension indefinitely, wider use will water down the preconceived notions about them?

One of the main purposes people use this board for is to find out what perceptions people have of names. If "Toby" or "Dido" become too middle class, then people who want to flaunt their public school education will switch to something else.

1. I see a significantly larger amount of boys names labelled this way than girls, I wonder why that is?

My hunch is that people want their boys to be able to "pass" in a wider range of social situations than girls, and that it is more acceptable for a girl to publically aspire to a higher social status.

Boys names are supposed to be serious, and girls can be "princessy"

I think pretentious names tend to be long and from the classics. Like by naming your child you're declaring how well read/educated you are.

This is possibly the first time I've seen DS' name described as pretentious - usually it's liked, or labelled 'hipster'.

@MagnusMama

This is possibly the first time I've seen DS' name described as pretentious - usually it's liked, or labelled 'hipster'.

I feel Magnus is one of those that has been crossing over, it definitely fits in with names that are widely considered pretentious, and I have seen it called pretentious before, but now use of it has become much more common it is shaking off that label.

It's shame how socially charged names are, and the way we label them. Pretentious boys names are my taste - I typically like longer names with many options for diminutives, I like soft sounding names so they often originate from other cultures, I also favour names that are not too popular. I don't view 'pretentious sounding' as an inherently negative thing, but I am conscious about whether that's a label I want for my child.

It's so true that girls names have a much wider choice without as many assumptions and connotations about the child based on the name.

I think a lot depends on what their peers are likely to be names. Horatio at Eton or Westminster is a lot less pretentious than at the local comp.

FWIW I have a very pretentious three syllable name that has never become popular. My dc therefore were given very simple names with no alternative spellings. Both think they are too boring.

@RosesAndHellebores

I think a lot depends on what their peers are likely to be names. Horatio at Eton or Westminster is a lot less pretentious than at the local comp.

FWIW I have a very pretentious three syllable name that has never become popular. My dc therefore were given very simple names with no alternative spellings. Both think they are too boring.

So no one at a public school can ever be pretentious?

@RosesAndHellebores

I think a lot depends on what their peers are likely to be names. Horatio at Eton or Westminster is a lot less pretentious than at the local comp.

FWIW I have a very pretentious three syllable name that has never become popular. My dc therefore were given very simple names with no alternative spellings. Both think they are too boring.

I think that's an interesting point which kind of crosses over into social mobility a little. Horatio A at Eton isn't pretentious, whereas Horatio B at the local comp is. But schooling is such a short time in a person's life so there's every chance that Horatio A falls on harder times as an adult and works as a factory worker and Horatio B will end up as prime minister where his name may fit with his peers' names better than Horatio A now does.

I think you can't really win though with unique/popular names as you won't know what your children think until long after they are named. I have a very popular name so my preference is unusual names. Maybe if they have children they'll be called George and Elizabeth!

1. Depends on your motives for using them, if its because you are wanting to convey a certain image, monied, classy etc. then that is pretentious. We use dress and names etc. To let people know who we are. A posh name, is telling people how you want to be received.
2. It's other people's perceptions of your motives and the stereo types of people with that name, even 'common' ones
3. Most posh, upper class names are a bit silly. Maybe it's a way of keeping the paupers off them.
4. I think that's a fairly new development, after celebrities started calling their children apple, rucksack, peaches etc.. There were definitely no little apples in my 70s childhood. Maybe if celebrities they start using the upper class names, they will filter down.

I personally find those specific four names quite flamboyant, and I think I'd therefore probably call them ostentatious. And that's what makes them pretentious.

I feel like those three words are all variations of a theme, but with nuanced definitions which hopefully explain a little bit of the journey to pretentious.

Depends on your motives for using them, if its because you are wanting to convey a certain image, monied, classy etc. then that is pretentious. We use dress and names etc. To let people know who we are. A posh name, is telling people how you want to be received.

But if you meet a Lysander or an Aloysius via work, how you will you attempt to retrospectively penetrate his parents' motives or income level?

But if you meet a Lysander or an Aloysius via work, how you will you attempt to retrospectively penetrate his parents' motives or income level?

Unfortunately I think I'd my opinion of someone named Aloysius would be about them, not their parents. It makes no sense, but then neither does judging someone based on a name. I'd love to tell you that I'm better than making snap judgements, but I'm just not.

Well I guess you're not on face value, until you get to know little aloysius, or lysander and he tells you he went to the local comp and had a modest upbringing.
Which is when other people's perceptions of your parents choices comes in.

I remember reading about a student that got killed by a polar bear when on a school trip. Everyone was horrified until they found out his name was Horatio and he went to a private school. The family were then trolled by a surprisingly large number of the general public. Not sure what my point is other than there seems to be a large portion of the general population that still resent and judge wealthy families with pretentious names.

@cushioncovers

I remember reading about a student that got killed by a polar bear when on a school trip. Everyone was horrified until they found out his name was Horatio and he went to a private school. The family were then trolled by a surprisingly large number of the general public. Not sure what my point is other than there seems to be a large portion of the general population that still resent and judge wealthy families with pretentious names.

But the Chapple family were (and presumably are) prosperous, upper-middle-class types — both Horatio’s parents were doctors, his father a senior spinal surgeon, his grandfather was a Field Marshall in the British Army, Horatio had gone to Eton and was headed to university to do medicine — his siblings are called Magnus and Titus. I don’t think they’re trying to impress anyone.

It was a horrible, needless death.