How to pronounce Talia

[GemLooper]

Would you say Tah-lee-uh or tar-lee-uh?

Not default as in, this is the proper one. As in I don't come under any of the others, so what is that called.

Would you be telling a Glaswegian that because they can identify they don't speak the same as a Liverpudlian that they think they are superior? Hardly. I don't speak the same as either. Or any named regional dialect. And people are disagreeing that it doesn't mean that defaults you to RP and that it does mean I'm RP.

It's like what Daniel Radcliffe said. Boring middle of the road. Hardly a superiority complex. It just means that whilst 100% English, it's not obviously from a region. That's what I don't get about some PP. Your accent is English. Yes, obviously.... but within England? That's why I'm asking is boring middle of the road, just classified as RP.

@TwinsandTrifle,, it's all about you isn't it.

I'd say it like Tanya. Tal-ya

Because if don't have any other regional accent, I must default be that? As it's apparently impossible not have a sub-accent under English. This isn't me self diagnosing. This is me saying, does this mean if I have absolutely no regional dialect, that would identify me such as Mancunian, Glaswegian, Liverpudlian, then as I have to be something, I must be that as a default?

Again, I have to ask why you think that accents can only be solely tied to a region or place????

@TwinsandTrifle

Not default as in, this is the proper one. As in I don't come under any of the others, so what is that called.

Would you be telling a Glaswegian that because they can identify they don't speak the same as a Liverpudlian that they think they are superior? Hardly. I don't speak the same as either. Or any named regional dialect. And people are disagreeing that it doesn't mean that defaults you to RP and that it does mean I'm RP.

It's like what Daniel Radcliffe said. Boring middle of the road. Hardly a superiority complex. It just means that whilst 100% English, it's not obviously from a region. That's what I don't get about some PP. Your accent is English. Yes, obviously.... but within England? That's why I'm asking is boring middle of the road, just classified as RP.

I don't understand how any of this waffle means that you "don't have an accent". Let's clear it up. You do have an accent. Sometimes people have accents that are connected to a different place to the one they're from. Some accents have no regional ties at all. There's really nothing to be confused about?

Again, I have to ask why you think that accents can only be solely tied to a region or place????

I guess because until I heard the phrase RP (approximately 4 hours ago) all other UK accents are? If one is the exception, I don't think it's such a stretch of the imagination to see that it might not be viewed the same.

In a very basic nutshell. English accent. Covers England. Northern accent. The North. Glaswegian. Glasgow.

Whereas RP is related to class from 100 or so years ago. Southern England. But not if you have an accent identifiable as a specific area of Southern England. It's history means "sort of posh". And I can't marry up, Liverpudlian = Liverpool, with RP = south generally, but only if you're none of the southern dialects, and if you call it defaulting to that because you must call it something, yet don't fit any of the other dialects, you've got some kind of superiority issue.

Is Holly Willoughby RP? Again, difficult because there will just be all the "oh she must have had voice coaching, on the TV etc" but it's impossible to pick someone welk known enough without that aspect. She probably sounds a bit more "posh" at times than the voice I'm describing in general, but trying to see past that. Let's just go with, that's Holly, not off the telly or some trained "speaker". Just your mate Holly, from number 32, and that's how she speaks. RP?

@Bimblybomeyelash

Nobody says R in Bath. They either use a short A sound or a long A sound depending on if they are using a local accent (short A) or RP/ SSB accent (long A).

@TwinsandTrifle

Again, I have to ask why you think that accents can only be solely tied to a region or place????

I guess because until I heard the phrase RP (approximately 4 hours ago) all other UK accents are? If one is the exception, I don't think it's such a stretch of the imagination to see that it might not be viewed the same.

In a very basic nutshell. English accent. Covers England. Northern accent. The North. Glaswegian. Glasgow.

Whereas RP is related to class from 100 or so years ago. Southern England. But not if you have an accent identifiable as a specific area of Southern England. It's history means "sort of posh". And I can't marry up, Liverpudlian = Liverpool, with RP = south generally, but only if you're none of the southern dialects, and if you call it defaulting to that because you must call it something, yet don't fit any of the other dialects, you've got some kind of superiority issue.

RP is associated with class and education levels now, as in the past. As well as having a geographical association.

Accents, definitionally, are 'a distinctive way of pronouncing a language, especially one associated with a particular country, area, or social class.'

Accents, definitionally, are 'a distinctive way of pronouncing a language, especially one associated with a particular country, area, or social class.'

Now. This helps.

Because I would only see an accent as a regional dialect. Liverpudlian accent. You're from Liverpool. Plummy accent, not a regional accent. You can't be from "Plummy". All dialects can sound posh I think. So you could get a posh Mancunian and a standard Mancunian voice. And to me that's perceived class not accent. In the same way, I wouldn't say chav was an accent. But (and please don't get hung up on terminology, see the bigger point) there could be posh Norfolk and chavvy Norfolk. I'd see Norfolk as the accent irrespective of whatever class you want to attribute to posh or chav. Same accent. Norfolk.

I agree RP is not the only accent tied to social status. I don't know about the UK, but within Irish cities there are a few different accents linked to different social groups. There are at least two Dublin accents that are very different from one another, for example. I'd certainly call them distinct accents, though they're both Dublin.

Yes. Two different subsets (more, tbh) of a single accent, itself a subset of British English.

Same as there are different flavours of RP/SSE/SSB, which are subsets, and RP/SSE/SSB it itself a broad accent/dialect group within British English.

However RP has much deeper class associations than the variations within regional dialects, as discussed. Its origins are both class and regional in nature.

Forget England for a moment and think of another country. In Scotland there is the accent that the middle class speak and the working class accents from different areas. The <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dj11YFdS7hwY&ved=2ahUKEwivmYWsprjzAhUFhv0HHWzYCb8QwqsBegQIGhAE&usg=AOvVaw0yG9tflixBKwHi-Z0FNBig" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Glasgow University accent is a good example of the modern version, or for a slightly more old fashioned version Richard Wilson. It's the accent of the upper middle class of Edinburgh really, with all the same connotations as RP, just think of <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DCXA0N55c3iw&ved=2ahUKEwjizP3brLjzAhUILsAKHVt1BgQQo7QBegQICxAE&usg=AOvVaw0Ds7CM9Iuu-V48cab-jryp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Miss Jean Brodie.

So. (Apologies again if this is wrong, I still don't think I get it, and it's not through your lack of explanation, something is just not clicking with me, and contrary to my complete inability to grasp this thread, I'm not a complete dimwit usually)

Northern. Large area of UK, under which all regional dialects, are Northern accents.

Mancunian. Specific (small) regional dialect. Mancunian accent.

RP. Non regional dialect. (As many of the regions in the South have regional dialect, not RP). RP accent.

You don't have to fall under a regional dialect. You do have to fall under an accent.

If you are Southern England, and don't have any regional dialect, you are RP.

(Tell me that's fucking right, for the love of God)

People in the North speak RP too!

I just had a listen to Holly Willoughby, she has a pronounced SE accent. Definitely not 'neutral.

You are still looking at RP as a ‘absence’ of anything else. It’s just a way of speaking. Literally a way of saying words.

You know how you have that accent if you say words that way.

I mean I’m about to blow your mind, but we all speak a dialect, too.

Dialect is made up of pronunciation, vocabulary and grammar. Everyone has one.

It goes
Language
^
Dialect
^
Accent

This might be a helpful primer if you’re interested.

@StrychnineInTheSandwiches

An actual bowl of trifle would have got this by now.

I genuinely did l-o-l then. @JassyRadlett, lie down flat, and I'll just pour the straight down. We'll cut out the glass middle man. You've earned it.

But overall - just ditch your idea that you have to be able to tie an accent to a geography for it to be an accent, or that there’s a straightforward way that you can know where someone belongs by their accent.

Many people’s accents are a total mixture. Many people’s change over their lifetimes. I know kids who have accent-switched between home and school from a very young age, speaking with the dominant accent in each setting.

My own kids have aspects of Australian English dialect and the occasional pronunciation because I have raised them, and they are contrary fuckers who delight in saying ‘vitamin’ differently from their peers ‘because I’m half Australian you know, so I know how to speak Australian too.’

😂😂😂

Accents is a REALLY nice change from Covid misinformation though which is my usual groove.

How did we all agree to pronounce Talia? Was it ‘Greg’? I think it was ‘Greg’.

People in the North speak RP too!

Yes, they very well could, if they had no recognisable regional dialect, they are RP......right?

I just had a listen to Holly Willoughby, she has a pronounced SE accent. Definitely not 'neutral.

Ah, I did say I couldn't think of her voice in my head particularly well, maybe she's not a good example. It's really hard to think of someone on the TV nationwide who speaks how I'm trying to describe, without the immediate "trained voice!" thing.

I said Susanna Reid initially, and just got "who??". But again, she's a TV presenter and sounds a bit on the posh pronounced side of what I'm trying to describe.

And there's that large part of the UK that's in the midlands.

@JassyRadlett

😂😂😂

Accents is a REALLY nice change from Covid misinformation though which is my usual groove.

How did we all agree to pronounce Talia? Was it ‘Greg’? I think it was ‘Greg’.

I was going to say, let us wend our way over to bait some swivel-headed conspiracy theorists on the Covid boards. It might be easier. I think the poor OP has probably decided to go for Mavis. Nice solid easy to pronounce name. We like Mavis. We've also given my student Thalia /tæli:'æ/ hours of fun.

Yes, they very well could, if they had no recognisable regional dialect, they are RP......right

Are you just taking the piss now?

RP isn’t an absence of anything else. It is a specific way of speaking. Of saying those sounds. That. Is. Literally. It.

Absolutely no different than a Scouse accent is the absence of ‘any accents that aren’t Scouse.’

Accents. Are. The. Sounds. We. Make. When. We. Say. Words.

RP isn’t ‘well, you don’t fall into any other category so here’s a label’. It’s a well-documented group of sounds used in making words that are common to that accent.

I think the poor OP has probably decided to go for Mavis. Nice solid easy to pronounce name. We like Mavis.

Which is pronounced ‘Marvis’, yes?

hides

Henry Look at her, a prisoner of the gutter,
Condemned by every syllable she ever uttered.
By law she should be taken out and hung,
For the cold-blooded murder of the English tongue