How to pronounce Talia

[GemLooper]

Would you say Tah-lee-uh or tar-lee-uh?

But it is largely about class, if you think that RP (in all its wonderful forms) is 'properly' and other dialects are less proper.

But I don't. I said she "sort of" sounded proper and you're taking that out of context.

For clarity. Other dialects are not "less proper".

What I'm saying is I think some people have no notable accent/dialect.

An accent is a way of pronouncing a language. It is therefore impossible to speak without an accent.

@Fluffypastelslippers

You know some people pronounce things differently? For some Scottish people poor pour and paw all sound different.

Ok, I'm Scottish but this has me stumped.

Poor - p OO r

Pour - p OH r

Paw - p AW

Are you telling me it's common on England for OO, OH and AW to sound the same

yes, I'm sorry to couse confusion, but in my accent (southern England) they all sound the same the closest I can get is to say they all sound like por to rhyme with for. But don;t say the r!

By the way, I'm quite happy to see that you're far more educated on the topic than I am. You absolutely are. I'm trying to understand, and just absolutely can't. I have a "boring middle of the road voice" and I don't see that as an accent.

What's your accent. Mancunian.

What's your accent. Middle of the road.

I can't get past how these are supposed to be seen the same. One's unmistakably from Manchester. The other, you just don't know.

They're both subsets of an English accent. 'English' is a reasonable descriptor of either, and then you get into the dialects and dialectical variations that sit within that. It doesn't need to be solely tied to a particular location to be a form of English accent. Again, why are you getting so hung up on the idea that if you can't tie an accent solely to a particular geography, it can't be considered an accent?

I used the example upthread of regional variations within SSE in the Home Counties.

But I don't. I said she "sort of" sounded proper and you're taking that out of context.

Ok, so what's the context for "She just pronounces her words properly" that doesn't mean that other pronunciations of those words are less correct?

That's the problem here - the suggestion that one accent is neutral/the norm, which you've just reinforced by your statement that 'I think some people have no notable accent/dialect.' Which is just nonsense. RP/SSB/SSE is as much a dialect/accent as any other.

An accent doesn’t mean “can specifically identify which is your nearest town”. It’s a way of describing how you pronounce your words. It’s often specific to very localised areas in the uk, but not necessarily. It’s a very narrow view to think that because an accent is predominantly to be found eg across large parts of the south of England, that doesn’t count as an accent. The south of England is tiny, geographically speaking, so it still does have geographical implications. And anyway, it’s a way of describing a particular method of speech. It’s not a way of describing “how different you are from the queen”.

@TwinsandTrifle

It was your claim not to have an accent at all that didn't make sense. England is a geographical location you know. I see you've now admitted you have an English accent like Daniel Radcliffe.

English is countrywide. Mancunians have an English accent. It was your own quote that said "boring middle of the road" re DR. That's not a place.

What's your accent. Mancunian.

What's your accent. Middle of the road.

I can't get past how these are supposed to be seen the same. One's unmistakably from Manchester. The other, you just don't know.

take it to another country.

Jane has an American accent.
That is definitely her accent, not English Singaporean or Australian, but American.
We woudln't argue with that.
But if you were American you might then say - Oh that is a Florida/Tennessee/ New York accent.

This is the same.
You have an English accent.
Not American, scottish or New Zealand, but English.
To say you haven't got an accent is to be very deliberately obtuse.

Within England, you accent is described as RP or general southern.

I have a "boring middle of the road voice" and I don't see that as an accent.

I just can't understand this. You pronounce words in a way that is different to the way other people pronounce those words.

That's literally all that an accent is. It's the way people pronounce words. Everyone has one. Everyone.

@stillcrazyafterall

If you're from the SW and use a long A you don't have a local accent you've morphed towards RP.

Accents local to me sound similar to (but not the same as) those in the poems of William Barnes a Victorian poet who wrote in Dorset dialect.

Locals say Baaaath especially at rugby matches. C'mon Baaaath. Not Barth; you'd get the side eye and everyone would assume you're not local.

I think Daniel Radcliffe sounds like a middle class Londoner. I don’t think his accent is neutral really.

An actual bowl of trifle would have got this by now.

@TwinsandTrifle

It was your claim not to have an accent at all that didn't make sense. England is a geographical location you know. I see you've now admitted you have an English accent like Daniel Radcliffe.

English is countrywide. Mancunians have an English accent. It was your own quote that said "boring middle of the road" re DR. That's not a place.

What's your accent. Mancunian.

What's your accent. Middle of the road.

I can't get past how these are supposed to be seen the same. One's unmistakably from Manchester. The other, you just don't know.

The quote - from Daniel Radcliffe describing his own accent afaik - is a 'boring, middle of the road ENGLISH' one (my emphasis, as you seem to have missed the point the first time).

Locals say Baaaath especially at rugby matches. C'mon Baaaath. Not Barth; you'd get the side eye and everyone would assume you're not local.

Hmm. I reckon enough locals say the r in Bath, for it to pass unnoticed.

(Anyway OP, sorry for the epic hijack, from my POV I'd usually say TAH-lee-uh where the TAH rhymes with la-like-Julie-Andrews-in-the-Sound-of-Music. However I have heard TAL-ee-uh as well where TAL rhymes with Sal and pal. For TALE-ee-uh I'd probably spell it Thalia.)

@TwinsandTrifle

By the way, I'm quite happy to see that you're far more educated on the topic than I am. You absolutely are. I'm trying to understand, and just absolutely can't. I have a "boring middle of the road voice" and I don't see that as an accent.

I have a boring middle of the road Irish accent, no one in Ireland can ever peg where I am from but if I met you you would still think I had an accent. What would make me have an accent with my boring middle of the road irish 'voice' and not you with your 'boring middle of the road voice'?

*take it to another country.

Jane has an American accent.
That is definitely her accent, not English Singaporean or Australian, but American.
We woudln't argue with that.
But if you were American you might then say - Oh that is a Florida/Tennessee/ New York accent.

This is the same.
You have an English accent.
Not American, scottish or New Zealand, but English.
To say you haven't got an accent is to be very deliberately obtuse.

Within England, you accent is described as RP or general southern.*

This! This is exactly what I mean.

@LizzieAnt saying, well your accent is "English" isn't the same thing, despite you repeatedly saying it is. It's what it falls to within England

So, within England I'm sort of default RP. Which to me, is non accent because it's different to how all other current regional accents work.

@TwinsandTrifle

*take it to another country.

Jane has an American accent.
That is definitely her accent, not English Singaporean or Australian, but American.
We woudln't argue with that.
But if you were American you might then say - Oh that is a Florida/Tennessee/ New York accent.

This is the same.
You have an English accent.
Not American, scottish or New Zealand, but English.
To say you haven't got an accent is to be very deliberately obtuse.

Within England, you accent is described as RP or general southern.*

This! This is exactly what I mean.

@LizzieAnt saying, well your accent is "English" isn't the same thing, despite you repeatedly saying it is. It's what it falls to within England

So, within England I'm sort of default RP. Which to me, is non accent because it's different to how all other current regional accents work.

Oh my god you really are having trouble aren't you 🤣

If you would like to decide that it's "not an accent" then okay, fine. We all tried to help you. But at best, it makes you look like an idiot, and at worst it's reinforcing unpleasant ideas about regional accents.

I do get that I have an English accent. From the country of England. That's not what was being discussed...

Yes I am having trouble

@StrychnineInTheSandwiches

An actual bowl of trifle would have got this by now.

Piss off

Tah-lee-ah

So, within England I'm sort of default RP. Which to me, is non accent because it's different to how all other current regional accents work.

YOU'RE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF

Oh my goodness, you are so tying yourself up in knots.

I literally wrote a peice to say you are English, subset RP.
You reply quoting me to say - look no accent!!!
Then you say - I am English, subset RP so .....
drumroll..... I don't have an accent.

You do. English, subset RP.

Bloody hell it is like getting blood from a stone.

Why does it matter? Because you assertion that you have no accent is massively offensive. Why? because you are saying, again and again, that YOUR accent is the standard and that anything else needs a name. How offensive is that? How self centred and blinkered?

Sorry, but everyone has told you this, nicely and you aren't getting it.

You know white privilege, male privilege etc etc, this is the same with accents. You are centre of the world and all other accents are only in relation to you.

Time for some self reflection OP.

Not “default” RP - you still have the idea that yours is the “default”. Why?

Sounds like you have an RP English accent, or Standard Southern British accent. It’s still an accent. So if someone said “what’s your accent” you can say one of these things. Not “no accent” or “neutral middle of the road”.

“ Standard Southern British (where 'Standard' should not be taken as implying a value judgment of 'correctness') is the modern equivalent of what has been called 'Received Pronunciation' ('RP'). It is an accent of the south east of England which operates as a prestige norm there and (to varying degrees) in other parts of the British Isles and beyond.”

Not “default” RP - you still have the idea that yours is the “default”. Why?

Because if don't have any other regional accent, I must default be that? As it's apparently impossible not have a sub-accent under English. This isn't me self diagnosing. This is me saying, does this mean if I have absolutely no regional dialect, that would identify me such as Mancunian, Glaswegian, Liverpudlian, then as I have to be something, I must be that as a default?

I would say tay lee aah, as in genitalia. (Apologies if this is your child's name, no offence meant).