Welsh girl names - Help

[Cookalia]

We are really struggling with girl names.
It needs to be Welsh but work in Welsh speaking Wales and English speaking Wales and can't have a LL in it.

We have tended to like 'dated' names over current popular ones.

Megan, Bethan, Rhian, Carys etc are all nice but too run of mill.
Siân and Sioned also can't be used and nothing that begins with a T

Gwenaëlle is breton.

I've tested him. He pronounces it Gwenllïan.

He's had practise though, our eldest is called Llywelyn. Again, pronounced better than you'd think.

I didn't get Llŷr like I wanted for DS though. DH can handle the Ll but not a rolled R immediately after!

@Destroyedpeople isn't there just 😍

I'm stealing Liliwen for my list. Not heard of that one before

Greta I'm not sure if it sounds too harsh or not

I like Llŷr.

I think Liliwen is awful. I would say it as Lil-EWE-en. (ewe as in female sheep)
The accent always falls on the penultimate syllable.

If OP's surname is what I think it is (think tank engine) the obvious first name is Gwen.

I love the name Gwen, and Gwenno

Delyth
Marged

"Is Seren a new(ish) name or one of those 90yo ones that has seen a revival? Hard to gauge its “feel”."

I was actually wondering about whether I should tell "the truth" about Seren earlier on :)
It's extremely popular as a girl's name now, but used to be a name for a cow, or maybe a horse. You're unlikely to find a Mrs Seren Jones in the care home, but I do know one who's about 20 as well as a little girl one.

"DH is French and Ffion in French sounds exactly like the word for arsehole 🙈
"

I speak French, but don't know that word. Will have to google.
For a name that works in Welsh and French, but it not totally international, you could go with Manon.

@Gwenhwyfar, I've expressed my opinion on it from the first time I've seen it on here. I was the go to name for a pony with a star. It seems as odd a choice for a baby girl as Gelert or Pero would be for a boy.

Enfys is another one that puzzles me. Beautiful as a rainbow is, I don't think it is a pretty word, and it doesn't strike me as a name.

Seren looks quite nice written down, but sounds harsh when said as Serrun, Serrin ir Serr-ENN.

Morgan is quite common in France too. I did think of Manon as well, both very Breton like DH, but I wasn't keen. Thanks for the suggestion though Gwenhwyfar!

In retrospect, I suppose I wanted middle names that were proper Cymru Cymraeg, although manageable for DH to pronounce. It was just the first names that had to be bilingual English/French.

I've just checked the spelling and indeed the word fion translates as arse/bum/backside. I remember getting some very funny looks on the street once, calling after my friend Ffion who'd wandered on ahead.

That said, the pronunciation didn't seem to stop recently jailed ex-PM François Fillon and his Welsh wife getting on in life!

I really like Eira, meaning 'snow'.

Oh, and Arwen too

DH found Arwen in our baby names book but I'd didn't think I'd ever heard it before, so said no.

The veto was confirmed when I learned it's also a name from Lord Of The Rings and that was the real reason he wanted it

@mamansnet, Arwen isn't strictly Welsh. It's from LOTR.

-wyn (boy) and -wen (girl) names were hugely popular in the first half of the 20th century, so are mainly dated now. Some of the names were made up.

Arwyn is a boy's name, and occasionally the suffix was changed to make it a girl's name, Arwen.

Similarly, Alwen is welsh, but Alwyn isn't, but presumably because it looks welsh, it is used.

Awen is a welsh girl's name, and IMO is much nicer. It means muse. The -wen isn't a suffix.

LOTR names sound Welsh on purpose though and like Mike's said before, Arwen passes as Welsh.

"Morgan is quite common in France too. "

But is a boy's name in Wales. I had a friend called Morgan and he was always getting 'but what is your first name?'

My ds has middle name Morgan ( meaning sea protector- which is quite apt as he is doing post grad in Marine Science/ Oceanography! );...his first name is Scottish Gaelic (I'm Scottish, dh is Welsh and all 3 of dcs have 1 Welsh, 1 Scottish name)

A french (breton) acquaintance has a daughter called Morgane, which is pretty.
I don't see Morgan as a girl's name.

On another thread, there's a which one out of Lydia, ...

Lydia and other biblical names, preferably phonetic, are generally acceptable as welsh names. Classical names like Helen, too. They don't seem to get used that much.

The young welsh-speakers I know tend to give their children very welsh-sounding names.

"Classical names like Helen, too. They don't seem to get used that much."

Helen in Welsh is Elen. We can Welshify the pronunciation of Helen by pronouncing it Hel-ehn rather than Hel-un, but I still wouldn't see it as a Welsh name.
(There is a whole thread somewhere on whether Helens in English should be pronounced Hel-un or Hel-in).

I know a few Helens. Elen was not that common until the 1960s.

I think in terms of welshness it would be on a par with Robert or something - not welsh but used by the welsh.

I know an Elan....

Ffion and Seren are lovely ❤️

Carys