British name or foreign (Italian) name for dual-nationality child abroad?

[LeeMiller]

Hi all, we're just starting to think about naming our first child. I'm British and DH is Italian, we live in Italy and are planning to stay here. Our baby will have an Italian surname. I would like a middle name (although it's not common here and should probably be short as child will legally have to include it in signature etc, so it will be used more than middle names usually are in the UK). We want a British element to be included in the name somewhere. My name poses problems here (loads of middle names so too long for forms, it's not spelled phonetically, lots of Hs etc) so we'd try to avoid those by choosing familiar/classic British names that are easy for Italians to pronounce.

We have a rough shortlist of names, both British and Italian, but we can't decide how to combine them. Our choices are:

a) British first name and Italian middle name

b) Italian first name and British middle name
c) 'International' first name pronounced the same(ish) in both countries and British middle name

DH prefers an Italian first name as it's easier for the child, whereas I have a common English name and would have loved something foreign and unusual growing up, so favour a British first name.

I'm curious, people bringing up kids outside your home country, what option did you choose and how has it worked out? If you grew up with an obviously foreign-sounding name, did/do you like it?

(Our current shortlist includes James, Joseph, Jude, Max, Cosimo, Amadeo, Leonardo and Lucy, Rose, Rosamund, Rosalind, Charlotte, Eleonora, Clara, Alida, Livia and Lucia - particularly if you're Italian, what's your perception of those names? )

Sorry that was so long!

Some are dual
Eg
Emilia
Raphael

I'm in a similar situation - I'm German, husband is British and we live in UK. I said from the beginning that I want our children to have an international or British name that is easily pronounced in German.
I personally don't believe in mixing foreign names together, my own first name is not very common where I come from and people over here cannot pronounce it and I always have to spell it out several times. I will not want my child having to go through this on a daily basis. In your case, I would go with the international or easy Italian first name and then maybe an easy British middle name.

Sure, but if it's international/dual, it practice doesn't that become Italian, since we live here? I think Italian names are lovely, I'm just wondering whether for the child it's nice to have a more unusual foreign name that references their heritage... or maybe that's just annoying in real life?

A dual name eg. Alfeo, shortened to Alfie?

Thanks Peanutty, good to have your first-hand experience. I have one of those '5 in a class' 1980s names so that is probably blinding me to the practicalities.

Arabella would sound lovely in an Italian accent I would think.

Thomas should be easy enough to pronounce but is more English?

We live in Australia and I am from Croatia, my husband in from NZ. We chose a name that is international and can be pronounced in both English and Croatian. It wasn't so hard. Surname is English and middle name was Croatian.

My dc are both British but we live in Europe. They were born here and both have names that sound English but are of Greek origin.

I am not religious but I want them to go to a local school and celebrate their name day etc so ds's name does have an Orthodox Saint. Dd's is more mythological but she has a saints day for her middle name which has been UK top 10 for years.

We have Welsh and Ausrian heritage between us too and I tried to get all 4 in but went Anglo/Greek in the end.

So yes, do 'c'

I meant that it wasn't so hard for anyone, not my family or DHs or our community.

There are loads and loads of (c) options, especially for girls.

For a boy, could you call him Massimilio on the birth certificate but use Max day to day?

Ok, so it seems the consensus so far is that an English name is not a good idea and that something dual is best! Thank you, probably what I needed to hear.

Lots of the dual names we like (including the ones you mention Teen!) are existing family/friend names, or sound comical with the surname, I think we'd opt for something more Italian but easy for Brits to say, and maybe with the potential for a British nickname.

The other 2 I had were Rosa and Luca

We went for option c - "international" first and middle name and Italian surname. Without giving too much away these were the ones we considered (daughter has two of these names): Beatrice, Greta, Ava, Anna. My son was born in the uk and has a more Italian first name that we have shortened to an English version

I guess I'm just projecting my desire for a less boring name onto the baby. And maybe feeling more conscious of my foreignness now I'm pregnant abroad.

The name day is a good point mrsnec.

Max and Alex work well for boys in both uk and Italy.

I love your taste, Teen! Unfortunately Luca is a family name and DH doesn't like Rosa, only English variants, says it's a southern old ladies name.

Thanks Sanity. I like Max and love Beatrice and Alice, but worry that they're pronounced too differently in each country. My nephew has a different dual nationality and a name that's spelled the same but said differently, and he's started rejecting/correcting the British pronunciation. Greta is very pretty. Anna and Ava were always in my top 10 but annoyingly sound funny with DH's surname (starts with a vowel), kind of like a disease!

I do get that point about wanting to be different but some of the names on my shortlist were very popular in both countries. And also my favourite boys names which might have worked were already in the family (George and Max)

My shortlists were, Alexander, Gregory and Theodore, Sophia, Phoebe and Melissa.
People told me I was over thinking but dd does get small gifts from children at nursery when someone has a name day and they ring the church bells in the village. I am glad I did it. Dd's name also looks similar in both languages written down. Difficult in greek.

We use the English form of ds' s name but it's the Greek version on the bc and Dd calls him his greek name. So it would be like you, op putting Lucia on the bc but everyone calling her Lucy.

Thanks mrsnec. Your solution for your DD sounds like a good compromise. I think something with an easy diminutive is important for British family and friends, and for me! Italians tend to shorten less (outside the immediate family and with a few exceptions that have standard nicknames), they seem more likely to lengthen names with ino/ina.

I was in exactly the same position. In the end we went for 2 Italian names as the non Italian ones I liked either didn't go with the surname, sounded like a different word (e.g. Ruby, Polly etc) or else would be completely unintelligible for Italians and she'd spend her life spelling it (Niamh, Phoebe).

Choosing an Italian name was equally complicated as it needed to be something equally phonetic to both Italians and English. I have a couple of friends whose names are frequently mispronounced when in the UK (Aurelia, Giovanna, Giada).

We ended up giving DD 2 names, one which is completely Italian, as it doesn't exist in English, but with the same phonetics as English, and one pronounced the same in both languages. It's not true you need to sign with both names, it's really only required for legal documents, everything else can be signed with one. My Carta d'Identità has both my names in it but my signature only has one initial, for instance. Ditto my DP, who has 2 middle names.

Of your list I would avoid names beginning with a J, I'd also avoid Cosimo if you live in the north. Leonardo works well for both countries, plus it's not excessively popular, at least not in the current 10-14 year group. Max would also work although I do prefer Massimiliano as the long version.

For the girl names most would work, Charlotte will probably end up being called Carlotta. Eleonora is beautiful, Livia is OK but Lidia sounds much nicer IMO.

Thanks Melassa, that's very helpful and sensible. We have eliminated a lot of names I love for the same reasons you did. Interesting about the middle names, I was told at the commune I must include all mine (though my signature is basically a squiggle). A friend was explaining the other day that it all hinges on whether you use a comma on the birth certificate or not? I'll double check at the anagrafe in any case.

We are in Tuscany and DH is Florentine so Cosimo is a classic here, without being Mattia/Lorenzo/Francesco common. I don't really like any of the long forms for Max. Lidia for me is ruined by the Lydias in Pride and Prejudice and The Handmaids Tale! And will Livia just be confused with Olivia by British family? Another problem is that I teach young kids and so many names have been ruined by associations (good and bad) with specific students, or just overuse.

I have a Scandinavian background so my cousins and I have names that work in England and Scandinavia but with the Scandinavian spelling. It's unusual spelling to English people but generally fairly obvious how to pronounce the name (e.g. Josef instead of Joseph) so never had loads of issues. If we have to spell our names to people we say for e.g. "Joseph with an f (Josef)" which I guess could be a bit annoying but really isn't that bad ime

(Couldn't think if a better example than Josef with an f lol sorry!)

Ahhhh I have your same problem but in revers. I am Italian and my babies will be born in the UK.
My thinking on the names are:

• have to be international
• have to be pronounced roughly the same in both English and Italian
• have to be short (personal preference)
• have to sound right with their surname

So far I have come out with only two but I still have a lot of time and don't even know the genders yet:).
Watching this space with interest.

Thanks Solasshole, I think that level of spelling difference is ok, but I want to avoid any confusion, my name gets said and spelled differently each time.

So many lovely girls’ names that work in both languages:
Isabella
Beatrice
Emma
Silvia
Laura...

DD is one of the above but I’m not saying which!
Personally I love Eleonora but didn’t want it being shortened to Nora (Batty) by the English side of my family.

DS has an Italian name (recently deceased grandfather and one I liked) so I wanted Jonathan for his middle name. The guy at the Anagrafe REFUSED (!) to register more than one first name. DH went to register the birth while I was still in hospital and I was furious at the time, but I have to admit it would have caused problems with the overly official Italian system.