How would you pronounce Frances?

[JessicaBearx]

I would pronounce it FrARNces. Is this how most pronounce it or do you pronounces in Fran ces?
Asking because i don't want to pick a name we are pronouncing "wrong". Thanks

In-put.

Are you quite sure you don't say imput?

Blame the French...

I don't think we can blame the French when it turned into an m before it left Latin!

West Country: Frances with the soft 'a' as in baath in the south or close to how the French say France. I know a lovely 30 year old Frances and 3 others who have always been Frankie (which has a hard A)!

Input.
Yes, completely sure. If I said it wrong/lazily I would probably spell it wrong too.

That's very very sad tbh. Almost as sad as the BBC children's program about conkers that repeatedly called them "chestnuts" instead of "horse chestnuts", or explaining in any way that they shouldn't be roasted and eaten.
Unfortunately the BBC isn't infallible. It might be imfallible, but that's just wrong.
The fact that someone's lips are moving in preparation for the next sound doesn't prevent their tongue from dealing with the current sound. Many people might not do both, depending on how the people around them speak, but its sad to see the BBC saying its not done.

The fact that someone's lips are moving in preparation for the next sound doesn't prevent their tongue from dealing with the current sound.

The fact that you think that the imput pronunciation is 'wrong' and you can say /n/ with your lips touching makes me entirely disinclined to take you seriously.

Checking out for now, MrsHathaway had the right idea. These threads attract some really odd types.

Or rather, that you seem to think your tongue is 'dealing with sounds' inside your mouth with your lips having little influence on the process is just woeful. You can only be on the wind up.

Absolutely sure I never say imput. I always say in-put.

And Green Park.

I speak fluent English. Green Park doesn't become Greem Park in my accent. My lips don't touch.

I speak fluent English.

I absolutely was not calling that into question, I hope you've not taken offence. But I imagine that the vast majority of English accents (in England, at least) have imput (and likely Greem Park) as standard. Am I right in thinking that you are not English? I realise that this probably looks like some kind of anglocentric plot twist, but the truth is I know very little of e.g. the various different Scottish and Irish accents, so my bag of examples doesn't feature them, really. My study of linguistics only dealt with English in so far as it could be used to illustrate concepts. It (sadly) did not look all that much at the rich language variation in the UK (and RoI) aside from where it was particularly relevant.

Oh not at all, no offence.

My fluent reference was a response to the video remark on English fluency.

Interesting - had no idea before this thread that Frances was anything other than frarn-siz (r here to denote that long A, not an actual r). But I have lived in London all my time in England. Both Francesca and fran would have a short 'a' for me (like ran). Makes sense different people say it differently though based on their accent/region. Not sure why some people are getting het up about it and insisting their way must be right...

DixieFlatline

I'm from SE England and having spent the last 5 minutes saying "input" and "handbag" to myself, I would say that I am saying it somewhere in between m and n. My tongue IS touching the top of my mouth briefly before the p/b sound, whereas if I say "imput" or "hambag", it does not.

Oh dear DixieFlatline you say (and I have copy/pasted so it actually is what you say)
The fact that you think that the imput pronunciation is 'wrong' and you can say /n/ with your lips touching hmm makes me entirely disinclined to take you seriously.
So read again where you think I say that, because I don't. You seem to have got a bit carried away by your wish to suggest that I shouldn't be taken seriously.
I said, again copy/pasting, The fact that someone's lips are moving in preparation for the next sound doesn't prevent their tongue from dealing with the current sound.
My tongue touches behind my teeth in an n as my lips move closer together ready for the p. I am not lying or imagining it, and I doubt that everyone else who "think"s they say the n is lying or imagining it either.
I also say the n in handbag, and although the d is sometimes very soft it is there too.

Watching the video again, I am genuinely not convinced all those people are saying Greem Park. They would look and sound different if they were. It is more that the n sound is only half completed before the change to the p, although I think the 3rd person actually does say the n, but its not a great scientific sample.

Finally I am sorry if I have caused offence to anyone by admitting that I think saying "imput" for "input" is lazy or wrong. I did not say it to upset or judge anyone and if I have ever picked anyone up for it (which I doubt) it would have been my own children, in order to help them spell it.

whenI say an n, I put my tongue in a different plac eot when I say an m.

So when I say input, my lips may be moving towards the P shape which is the same place as the m, but my TONGUE isnt.

I am sitting here saying input and imput, and no, I definitely do not say an m, becuase my tongue is in the wrong place for an m.

Granted, it isn't a clear n, it is a n slurred inot a p.
But that is NOT the same as an m, and if someone were to deliberately say imput with a clear m, you would hear it and it would sound wrong.

That BBC video is frankly bizarre, the people are not saying greem at all, they are saying green with the n runing into the P.

Not the same.

I'm surprised that some people have never heard it pronounced differently to how they say it!

Baffled as to why some people think female should be Fran and male France? That is not true, the masculine/feminine part of the name is at the end. Female end sound ESS and male end sound ISS, the first part is the same for both.

With southern pronunciation it's:

France-ess for girl

France-iss for boy

(Or at least should be)

This thread is mental😂

To me the pronunciation of the long version (male or female) is entirely determined by region. If I was called Frances, I'd pronounce it with a short A, but I wouldn't consider a Southerner pronouncing it with a long A to be "mispronouncing" it, they'd just be saying it in their own accent (in the same way that if a French person said it, they'd probably roll the R, because that's what they do).

Having said that, I've never heard anyone, Northern or Southern, pronounce the short version with a long A. I've also never heard anyone pronounce it with a Z sound at the end, the male and female versions have always sounded the same to me. Just like Leslie/Lesley.

I mean, would you call someone Cartherine?

I have a distant relative whose family do pronounce it that way - I think she is aware that it sounds a bit wrong so she goes by a short form that avoids the issue.

I don't think people 'find the r' it is their accent- Frarnces, Tarnya, Arnya sounds right to them and weird to me. It's not an R as I know it, OP would probably hate the pronunciation if I put a strong Scottish R in the name.

Sorry on the anya thread and have resurected a zombie trying to link to it.. My bad. Ignore.

Fran-sis I'm in the east Midlands. Never heard it pronounced any other way.

Fran-cis. West Midlands.

Frarrn cess

Same as you would unless I was told differently