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Why is st.john pronounced

102 replies

JazzAnnNonMouse · 19/10/2013 10:42

Serginon?

OP posts:
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TheNunsOfGavarone · 19/10/2013 12:34

MsWazowski how did St Maur pronounce his/her? name?

I didn't realise there was an alternative pronunciation of Seymour until I read Miranda Seymour's extraordinary book about her father, In My Father's House. He pronounced it "seema" to rhyme with Lima and hated it when people said "see more" Confused

PlainLardy · 19/10/2013 12:34

Also, I know Wymondham = Windum and Happisburgh = Hazebruh but how do you say Garboldisham?

TheWomanTheyCallJayne · 19/10/2013 12:35

Garblsum

TheNunsOfGavarone · 19/10/2013 12:37

PlainLardy there's Marribon too just to make it even more confusing!

Featherstonehaugh/Fanshaw is indeed perplexing.

TheWomanTheyCallJayne · 19/10/2013 12:38

Or shm really

Not sham but the sh and m are all sort of pronounce I'm rubbish at writing things phonetically

Alisvolatpropiis · 19/10/2013 12:39

snice

Caius is Keys isn't it?

Apileofballyhoo · 19/10/2013 12:47

The rhyme had Caius to rhyme with 'skies'. It may have been a Limerick. Thanks, Bowler, I know what singeing is, it's just one of those words that doesn't follow the rules. Never wrote it down before!

TheSydenhamSet · 19/10/2013 13:08

Featherstonehaugh/fanshaw. Huh? Confused

nicename · 19/10/2013 13:10

Sinking strong singing ..

sinjun

Hmmm autocorrect fun, isn't it?

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief · 19/10/2013 13:11

Caius =keys, at least in respect of the Cambridge college by that name

Alisvolatpropiis · 19/10/2013 13:24

Caius is Keys because of founder of college latinising his name rather than because Caius is actually pronounced keys. I think that is a rather nice touch in confusing people!

FloraMcFarquhar · 19/10/2013 14:05

Somebody mentioned our MP Menzies (Ming) Campbell: in Scotland Menzies is usually pronounced Mingus - though I can remember some people referring to the newsagents as John Menzees. Dalziel is pronounce Dee ell. It's because of an Old English and Scots letter which has no modern equivalent apparently.

There are also the words written with an 'e' but pronounced 'a' - like clerk, derby and Berkeley (where a nightingale sang in the Square). A result of the Great Vowel Shift, I think .

RevelsRoulette · 19/10/2013 14:12

For YEARS I thought Menzies was pronounced Menses. As in periods. Blush

JourneyThroughLife · 19/10/2013 14:22

You have to be careful with the name Fetherstonhaugh. Mostly it is "Fanshaw" which is correct, but there are certain families where the surname is indeed pronounced Feather-stone-haugh...I know one. So it is always best to ask.

There are lots of these. Some are to do with foreign pronounciation, some to do with old spellings or pronounciations from previous centuries. But many are also do to with special spellings which yes, the 'upper classes' have traditionally used amongst themselves and it does mark out those in the 'know' and those who don't.

Magdalen/Magdalene is a typical example. Despite the nativity story containing a Mary Mag-da-len, don’t make the mistake of pronouncing Magdalen College college in Oxford as ‘Mag-de-len College’. It’s actually pronounced ‘Maudlin College’. Just to make things more confusing, Magdalen Street in the centre of Oxford IS pronounced ‘Mag-de-len’ but lively Magdelen Road in East Oxford is pronounced ‘Maudlin’ like the college.... You can see what I mean....

Felyne · 19/10/2013 14:23

The Chaos by G. Nolst Trenité

Dearest creature in creation,
Study English pronunciation.
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
I will keep you, Suzy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.
Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it’s written.)
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as plaque and ague.
But be careful how you speak:
Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;
Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.
Hear me say, devoid of trickery,
Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,
Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,
Exiles, similes, and reviles;
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war and far;
One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;
Gertrude, German, wind and mind,
Scene, Melpomene, mankind.
Billet does not rhyme with ballet,
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Viscous, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward.
And your pronunciation’s OK
When you correctly say croquet,
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.
Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.
River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,
Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger,
And then singer, ginger, linger,
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.
Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.
Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.
Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath.
Though the differences seem little,
We say actual but victual.
Refer does not rhyme with deafer.
Fe0ffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Mint, pint, senate and sedate;
Dull, bull, and George ate late.
Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific.
Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
Mark the differences, moreover,
Between mover, cover, clover;
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police and lice;
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.
Petal, panel, and canal,
Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor.
Tour, but our and succour, four.
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Sea, idea, Korea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean.
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.
Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion and battalion.
Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.
Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver.
Heron, granary, canary.
Crevice and device and aerie.
Face, but preface, not efface.
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
Ear, but earn and wear and tear
Do not rhyme with here but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.
Pronunciation (think of Psyche!)
Is a paling stout and spikey?
Won’t it make you lose your wits,
Writing groats and saying grits?
It’s a dark abyss or tunnel:
Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.
Finally, which rhymes with enough,
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give up!!!

FloraMcFarquhar · 19/10/2013 14:31

Grin at 'menses' Revels

Oh, and how could I have forgotten to mention 'Farquhar' - pronounced Farker/Farkur.
Or Fah kwah if you're posh like me

Alisvolatpropiis · 19/10/2013 14:46

I knew someone with the surname Farqhuar prn Fah-kwah.

She was terrifying. Probably not you Flora Grin

idlevice · 19/10/2013 14:50

DS1 is Seymour, it's meaning is the place St Maur in France so said in a French accent it sounds a bit like "see more". Don't know where the pronunciation "seema" comes from but that was how DS said his name when he was learning to talk.

neunundneunzigluftballons · 19/10/2013 14:54

I remember going to a wedding a few years back where our mate John was marrying a woman whose surname was St John. We were invited to the St John his surname wedding on the invites. Everyone spent the day taking the piss out of him for his apparent overnight saint hood.

KatyPutTheCuttleOn · 19/10/2013 14:57

Cholmondley - Chumley. Not read the whole thread so sorry if I'm repeating.

neunundneunzigluftballons · 19/10/2013 14:58

Menzies is pronounced Menses here what is the other pronounciation.

nobutreally · 19/10/2013 14:59

Tis my dad's middle name Smile We is v. posh.

he pronounces it Sin Jun, I'd say - with Jun to rhyme with run, but slightly abbreviated - maybe Sin J'n would be more accurate...

LeGavrOrf · 19/10/2013 15:05

Althorp (Of Earl Spencer and Lady Diana fame) is pronounced Al-trup

ihatethecold · 19/10/2013 15:24

magdalene is pronounced maudlin.

FloraMcFarquhar · 19/10/2013 15:55

Och, no ' me Alis - I'm a very naice Scottish mummy wifie Grin