The mushroom poisoning in Vic.... I am gripped - Part 2

[ImustLearn2Cook]

Hi everyone, Aussie Mumsnetter here. As some have requested a new thread be started by an Aussie I decided to do it.

I am still gripped by this case and like many, I am awaiting updates of new information.

Will a matching donor for a liver for Ian be found soon? I hope he makes a full recovery.

Will he be able to shed new light on the lunch they all shared?

And of course is she guilty of deliberately poisoning them or was it an innocent mistake?

The public memorial for those who died was held today. Simon Patterson spoke.

It brings home what an utterly sad event this is.

Must say, the talk around the towns is now pretty much 'of course she bloody well did it. Bring on the arrest'.

Public memorial service in Korumburra celebrates the life of Don and Gail Patterson - ABC News

That must be so traumatising, to lose both parents in such an awful way. Have their bodies been released for burial or cremation?

No mention of whether Erin was there, which leads me to think she wasn't.

@DigbyTheDigger given the cause of death has not yet been officially confirmed, I don't think they will have released their bodies.

They were quietly buried a week or so ago, it has been reported.

Erin did not attend the memorial service, it was also reported somewhere.

How do trials work there, is it a jury? It'd surely be difficult to find a jury that's not already decided she's guilty before the trial even starts. If she'd gone to the memorial she'd have been lynched.

I think the person needing a liver transplant is going to die, poor soul. Hardly anyone who needs a transplant gets one and even if they do it's not guaranteed to work. I don't think there's a substitute liver machine to keep people going while they wait, is there?

Apparently, Don (Simon Patterson's father) was given a liver transplant, but he was still too unwell to survive. So it may not be hopeless for Ian Wilkinson.

Normally a murder trial is by jury. However there are precedents for judge-only trials where it is believed that a jury would not be able to be impartial.

Although in Victoria during Covid restrictions there were judge-only trials to help comply with the lockdowns.

Gosh. That’s utterly heartbreaking. Knowing your going to die in this way in a very short space of time.

I just hope that Patterson if guilty gets banged to rights.
It will be hard for any jury member not to have seen her on the news and to have had a 'Gut feeling' about her.

I know she must have a 'Fair trial' but it's crucial she doesn't get let off on a technicality if she is thought to be guilty.

If there isn't enough to convict someone, they shouldn't be convicted. There is no 'getting off on a technicality.' A case can either be proved or it can't. Trial by media has led to high-profile miscarriages of justice.
I have no idea what happened and who did what in this case. The exact same as every poster here. But I hate any push to ignore the rules of the justice system. It already discriminates against lots of people - basing it on public pressure and what people on social media feel - would be an unmitigated disaster. It sometimes feels like we've not moved on from people knitting beside the guillotine.

Actually, you're wrong - getting off on technicality is a real thing. Here's a link with 10 examples of killers who did just that, if you want to read through you will see that it was only a "loophole" in the law, despite overwhelming clear-cut evidence.
https://listverse.com/2020/01/06/10-killers-who-got-off-on-technicalities/

I wish I hadn’t read that last one @FallingStar21 🤮

Oh god 🤢

@Mamette I only read the first two cases, sorry if there've been some really bad ones in there

@FallingStar21 I appreciate you sharing a link but having close family members in law and the prosecution services, as well as having attended numerous lectures from world-renowned defence lawyers, I stand by my post. The article clearly shows that the courts couldn't prosecute for legitimate reasons including MH issues, and indeed in at least one of them, the person was convicted. The reasons some of them weren't convicted is because the police or courts acted unlawfully. That doesn't mean they 'got off on a technicality'. Due process is important. If it isn't followed, anyone could be thrown in jail.

@IveHadItUpToHere that is a very reasonable and balanced view. I will admit to a little bit of impatience at why the investigation is taking so long and why there have been no recent updates. But, as your post highlights and the link that @FallingStar21 posted ( and I clicked on it and read it) also highlights, it is very important that the investigation finds genuine evidence and is a lawful investigation.

We all deserve due process when it comes to being suspected of a crime. None of us would want to be convicted of a crime we hadn’t committed just because it became popular opinion that we were guilty. That would be awful.

They have said from the start of the investigation that they suspect, based on presentation of symptoms and timing of symptoms, that the four have been poisoned by death cap mushrooms, and the toxicology experts warned it may take weeks or months to verify the presence of DC mushrooms.

Every part of the investigation will take as long as it takes. They are hardly going to fill us in on the details as it goes along. It reminds me of the awful Idaho college student murders, where it seemed as if the police were just bumbling along cluelessly, until they suddenly charged a suspect, and presented a mountain of gathered evidence to back up their charge.

This expert in DC poisoning deaths is very informed and informative.

Mushroom deaths: Erin Patterson's lunch guest myth blown apart by poison fungi expert (dailymail.co.uk)

This is probably unsurprising...

The article talks a lot about how consumers can have confidence in the Australian mushroom supply chain. I wonder how much of the drop is not due to worry about poisoning but rather just a feeling that it's distasteful to serve a mushroom-heavy dish at present?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-04/mushroom-sales-fall-after-suspected-death-cap-poisoning/102811418

I think the way they've tried to reassure people has made them more nervous not less.

This struck me: 'Death caps cause nine out of 10 mushroom poisoning deaths, killing between 10 to 30 per cent of those who consume it.' Part of the problem is that the information feels contradictory.

The expert on the TV programme said the victims probably had to eat 2 mushrooms each for the symptoms to be so serious so quickly. And that the toxins leave the body quickly but the response it triggers in the body continues.

Then the Daily Mail expert said the toxin would still be in the body and that just drinking the liquid the mushrooms were cooked in could kill you.

That's probably why people are worried - none of them are saying the same thing. So you need to eat 2 or none (just drink the cooking water). And it will definitely be in your organs or it will definitely have left the body. And it's so fatal that even cooking water can kill you or actually only 10-30% of people who eat them die.

Ooh! Also now we can give 'thanks' to posters! I'm just going to throw random 'thanks' at you all to see how it works! 😀

From what I understand you have to click on a post you like. Only the person posting will see it. So not the same as likes.

That's probably why people are worried - none of them are saying the same thing.

I don't think most people are studying what various experts say. Death caps are not in the supply chain. I think it's just an offputting thought. I have not been able to bring myself to buy mushrooms since the poisoning was first reported.

Yy I just found a thread about it. Only you can see who has thanked you and you need to put on notifications for it in web settings or else you might not notice you've been thanked at all.

This thread is getting quite desperate 🍄😁