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The mushroom poisoning in Vic.... I am gripped - Part 2

1000 replies

ImustLearn2Cook · 20/08/2023 00:38

Hi everyone, Aussie Mumsnetter here. As some have requested a new thread be started by an Aussie I decided to do it.

I am still gripped by this case and like many, I am awaiting updates of new information.

Will a matching donor for a liver for Ian be found soon? I hope he makes a full recovery.

Will he be able to shed new light on the lunch they all shared?

And of course is she guilty of deliberately poisoning them or was it an innocent mistake?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
57
ScotInExile · 24/08/2023 12:09

velvetandsatin · 24/08/2023 11:37

Well, by your accounts he must have somehow crept into her house and, having psychically deduced what meal she had planned for the lunch, poisoned the mushroom supplies she innocently cooked into the beef wellington; and then the following evening when she scraped the mushroom duxelle off and fed the beef to her children (that the forensic toxicologist said the DC mushrooms would have leached through into) they did not fall ill. Odd, if Simon had done it. Do you think he played Russian roulette with his children's lives?

I have already watched it twice, by the way, as I wanted to check what they said in the report about the tip.

I don't know why you're being so defensive about it. None of us know what actually happened. Unless you're somehow personally involved...?
It's an interesting theory that the husband might have been involved and isn't outwith the realms of possibility.
Since we're all speculating about what actually happened it's reasonable to have a discussion about alternative theories.
You seem very insistent that EP is guilty and unwilling to consider any other possibility. If the evidence was so compelling she would be in custody already.

velvetandsatin · 24/08/2023 12:41

She cannot be in custody until they have all the facts established, and while they are waiting on toxicology reports - which they have said will be weeks or even months. It has not been established what happened or why, but with the facts at hand (and as made clear by that program) only one person can reasonably be responsible. Whether it was a terrible mistake, and she is horrified at having killed three people and maimed another, and has panicked and tried to cover her tracks, or whether it was deliberate, will be established in due course.

Lunde · 24/08/2023 16:08

There was also a sort of hint that the ex-husband could possibly have set her up (since he was the one who mentioned the dehydrator and freaked her out making her feel the need to dispose of it) but obviously they didn't expand on it.

There are many possibilities about the ex mentioning the dehydrator - especially as Erin had previously told several differing stories about fresh mushrooms and also if he had suspicions regarding his own illness the previous year

One would be one of the kids saying to their dad (in all innocence) - "OMG you don't think a poisonous mushroom got into that batch Mum dried?"

Or one of the inlaw victims who died could have mentioned dried wild mushrooms to their son.

Another possibility was that the ex helped the Police to set her up so that she would panic and reveal the presence of the dehydrator if she had been hiding it since the deaths - especially if they suspected a dehydrator but couldn't find it in the house

Nissy123 · 24/08/2023 18:06

Has anyone seen that Erin is now missing?

IveHadItUpToHere · 24/08/2023 18:09

No-one has ever been able to point to a motive for EP murdering them. She is already wealthy and wouldn't expect to inherit further from them. Also if her motive was to inherit, she wouldn't have poisoned them at an event that led directly back to her. The ex is more likely to inherit.
I'm not at all suggesting he did or didn't do it but it wouldn't need to be as convulted as a PP was suggesting eg the ex could easily have provided a side dish, a gravy, etc. And presumably he knew his DC don't like mushrooms and weren't going to be there so he wouldn't have been risking his DCs.
Hopefully the dehydrator provides enough evidence to clear or convict someone.

FallingStar21 · 24/08/2023 20:56

I wouldn't get too hung up on the "no motive" for EP. There are so many 'unexpected' psychopaths out there (Lucy Letby recent case in point) who don't appear to have any good/real motive, yet they kill and thrive on it! Incomprehensible to the rest of us, but they do. EP's motive could be as simple as some twisted-minded revenge on her ex or 'just because she could and enjoyed doing it'.

FallingStar21 · 24/08/2023 21:02

IveHadItUpToHere · 24/08/2023 18:09

No-one has ever been able to point to a motive for EP murdering them. She is already wealthy and wouldn't expect to inherit further from them. Also if her motive was to inherit, she wouldn't have poisoned them at an event that led directly back to her. The ex is more likely to inherit.
I'm not at all suggesting he did or didn't do it but it wouldn't need to be as convulted as a PP was suggesting eg the ex could easily have provided a side dish, a gravy, etc. And presumably he knew his DC don't like mushrooms and weren't going to be there so he wouldn't have been risking his DCs.
Hopefully the dehydrator provides enough evidence to clear or convict someone.

Yeah, if the ex had so "easily" provided the gravy or had any other involvement, rest assured EP would have already pointed the finger at him to clear her name (unless they played in cahoots which doesn't seem likely - they were separated and he didn't want back). It would be interesting though to learn why he cancelled last minute.

Dustyblue · 24/08/2023 21:55

Nissy123 · 24/08/2023 18:06

Has anyone seen that Erin is now missing?

No, she's not missing, she's still around.

@velvetandsatin thanks so much for your UI synopsis. I've been off sick for 2 days and didn't catch it. I've no need to now, thanks to your description.

And we wait.

IveHadItUpToHere · 24/08/2023 23:11

FallingStar21 · 24/08/2023 20:56

I wouldn't get too hung up on the "no motive" for EP. There are so many 'unexpected' psychopaths out there (Lucy Letby recent case in point) who don't appear to have any good/real motive, yet they kill and thrive on it! Incomprehensible to the rest of us, but they do. EP's motive could be as simple as some twisted-minded revenge on her ex or 'just because she could and enjoyed doing it'.

Yy I meant to add that there might be no motive (well, that a reasonable person would consider a motive) but my RL intervened and I forgot to come back.

Fourecks · 25/08/2023 03:34

Thanks for the summaries, everyone. It's interesting reading the different conclusions that people have drawn from watching the program.

velvetandsatin · 25/08/2023 04:16

There were actually some interesting points made in the program. The mycologist Dr Heiki Neuimeister-Kemp said that you would probably need 10 full Death Cap mushrooms to have enough poison for 5 people.

The forensic toxicologist, Dr Miachael Robertson, agreed with her, saying that one DC mushroom would make a person ill, but you might need two DC mushrooms to lead to death. He also said, that if all 5 at the meal (including Erin, ie) had the same dish, you might expect to have different responses to the poison care of the health, age, etc of the person eating - but you would not have had one diner with little to no effect, like EP.

He said emphatically, Yes, when asked if the toxins would have gone into other parts of the meal during cooking. He said, you are going to have leaching of some of the toxin. Therefore, the children should have become ill, ie.

The private investigator pointed out that it wouldn't be the only packet of DC mushrooms on the shelf, and others would have become ill, if it was as EP was suggesting as a result of the dried mushrooms she purchased from an "Asian grocery". They observed there had been no recall of mushrooms... Someone else said wryly, if you need 10 DC to poison this many then that would be almost the whole pack she bought, and how likely was that.

Heiki said that the mushroom food industry is heavily regulated, extremely well-guarded, checked, double-checked, and triple-checked, because of the knowledge that there could be poisonous mushrooms.

Alex Krystic, the former major crime squad detective, asked at some point, "Who organised the lunch?"

Damien the PI, whose been scouring around Leongatha trying to collect info, said "I believe it was Erin."

Alex said that one could rest assured there would be no stone left unturned regarding EP's background, conduct, behaviour, inquiries she's made, and that an incidental comment or admission made by a suspect could well become evidentiary material.

He said at one point, "The truth never changes." And that most people who are genuinely innocent will just give it all to you, warts and all.

Liz Hayes pointed out that in her written statement to the police that EP admits lying to the police about the dehydrator dumping, and asked if that raised questions for him as an investigator. He said, it certainly did, and if it was put to a jury it would certainly allow the jurors to draw their own conclusions...

Those are just the points that stood out to me. I expect it will be up on YouTube shortly, if it's not already there.

IveHadItUpToHere · 25/08/2023 13:19

It's funny that the former detective is saying truth never changes and innocent people just give it all to you because yy 'truth' never changes but people's statements and memories do change. Obviously deliberately lying is different.

There have also been lots of lawyers and former police on Twitter from the UK and the US (not in connection to this case) saying that only someone who is very naïve would just 'give it all' to the police. They are constantly reminding people never to volunteer information to the police, to always say 'no comment' and make a formal request for a solicitor.

It's fascinating that they'd have needed to eat the equivalent of two mushrooms each. And that the authorities are obviously putting a lot of effort in to reassure people that it's safe to buy mushrooms. Ironically their attempts at reassurance have made me wonder for the first time about the safety checks around supermarket mushrooms, etc. I've never even considered that the mushrooms I buy could be fatal if there was a nefarious picker/farmer, etc.

velvetandsatin · 25/08/2023 13:31

It's funny that the former detective is saying truth never changes and innocent people just give it all to you because yy 'truth' never changes but people's statements and memories do change. Obviously deliberately lying is different.

She has admitted deliberately lying to the police.

IveHadItUpToHere · 25/08/2023 13:33

Well yy that was my point. Hmm But the detective's sweeping statements are incorrect and definitely point to his agenda (not just in relation to EP but in relation to the general public and their interactions with police).

velvetandsatin · 25/08/2023 13:40

Maybe my description of what he said was incorrect, or inadequately conveyed his intent.

Pocketfullofdogtreats · 25/08/2023 13:47

Fascinating case!

velvetandsatin · 25/08/2023 13:49

Really, she has lied multiple times to the police. She's told them she bought the mushrooms from the local shops. When questioned further on that, she clammed up and went no comment. Then she puts out that press release/statement to the police, where she admits she lied about disposing the dehydrator "a long time ago". Now she also bought dried mushrooms in an Asian grocery, months ago, as well as the button mushrooms from the local shops. As he said, the truth never changes - but her story does, it twists and turns, and she is clearly not very bright, and trying to cover her tracks.

FallingStar21 · 25/08/2023 15:37

velvetandsatin · 25/08/2023 13:49

Really, she has lied multiple times to the police. She's told them she bought the mushrooms from the local shops. When questioned further on that, she clammed up and went no comment. Then she puts out that press release/statement to the police, where she admits she lied about disposing the dehydrator "a long time ago". Now she also bought dried mushrooms in an Asian grocery, months ago, as well as the button mushrooms from the local shops. As he said, the truth never changes - but her story does, it twists and turns, and she is clearly not very bright, and trying to cover her tracks.

I think she'll 100% get charged, it's only a matter of time for the police to complete their investigation. I don't see how she can wriggle out of her web of lies, especially not in court where every little detail will be questioned and scrutinised.

Grrrpredictivetex · 25/08/2023 16:26

Thanks for the second thread. Interesting reading.

TupperJen · 26/08/2023 03:24

Such an unusual situation, seems so many unknowns - I wonder if Ian can recall anything to help - I mean at the time he wouldn't have noticed anything, so he may not have much information to help police, especially since his body has been through so much, the details of an "ordinary meal" must get pushed to the side.

Dustyblue · 27/08/2023 05:12

Mummyoflittledragon · 25/08/2023 06:13

Thanks for the new thread and keeping us up to date over here. A quick google suggests Erin is an experienced forager of mushrooms... according to “friends of the Patterson family”. Have you heard anything about this in Aus?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12407013/Deadly-mushroom-lunch-twist-emerges-fatal-cook-Erin-Patterson-experienced-forager-wild-fungi.html

Yes, I've posted somewhere on the threads about this before. Foraging is a thing here. The local mayor (of the Shire where this happened) and his wife came out straight away saying they enjoy it as an activity.

Many people who fungus-hunt (I'm getting sick of the word foraging for some reason) do it for the fun of finding new and strange looking types. A bit like bird watching; they look for different ones, take a pic, cross it off in their reference book and move on. They don't all eat the mushrooms, but some do.

Mummyoflittledragon · 27/08/2023 08:30

Thanks @Dustyblue I don’t recall this from the previous thread but there was such a lot of info.

hollyblueivy · 27/08/2023 14:19

What would her motive be if guilty?

Strawberryshitcake · 27/08/2023 17:33

Maybe she thought her ex would be bereft and come running back to her? I’m sure there’s any number of reasons.

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