Talk : Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate V

[treedelivery]

Welcome to the 5th thread.

An amazing day to begin a new journey together. The thread babies are arriving and we take this as a positive nod from the great karma controller - whoever and whatever that may be.

Good luck to our thread, to the souls who read, those who post, those who drop in to learn and hold hands.

Our cyber bench is a supportive place, we sit outside hospitals as strong but scared women go to ride their wave. We huddle in our cottage when the weather is bleak, stormy or biting cold.

When the sun shines on us we share stories of real life, gain strength and giggle together in times of warm weather.

Hello you two
Kittens - when you are feeling stronger - you could always go and speak to the guy I have been seeing. Having a scan of your ovaries may be helpful to you - you are two years younger than me. It is not too late darling and I agree you should keep trying. I am older and have children and am haunted by my terminations in a way that think prohibits me from trying naturally.
Egg screening may work well for you - it is cheaper than egg donation too. If you have lots of lovely follicles, you have a good chance.
I have been on the folic acid since 1st Jan - high dose. Can not harm can it?
Yours exhaustedly
Bee xx

I may look into egg screening at a later date if anything untoward comes up from the tests this time but there is, at the moment, nothing to say that this was more than an unlucky pregnancy that didn't 'take'. If nature had done the ideal thing I would've started bleeding not much more than a week after my period was due. At the moment I am taking it as nothing more than that which is what make me think of trying again sooner rather than later, especially as I am not getting any younger. I have given myself decent sized breaks after previous losses. Bigger breaks after the terminations than I did after my first miscarriage actually too.

I have managed to put my terminations behind me with no questions as to whether I did the right thing for myself or my babies under my own personal circumstances so the only thing I am haunted with is the dread of something similar happening again. The genetics counsellor told me last year that I have a pretty good chance of having a healthy pregnancy in the future. I have chosen to separate the circumstances of the TS21 pregnancies and miscarriage as, even if I had never had even the one TS21 pregnancy, the odds are pretty high to miscarry in early pregnancy over a certain age and I feel that if I am to cope I have to take that on the chin. Even if it does stink!

Egg screening is another one of those things, like egg donation, that I will think about if and when it becomes necessary. My OH and I are both self employed and have had a bit of a financial struggle over the past year or so so are not in a position to do anything under private healthcare just at the moment anyway. I was told a couple of years ago that after having a blood test, my fertility was at the same level as someone in their 20s so hopefully that's still the case. Although my mum did say she had her menopause in her early 40s. We'll see.

I think, actually, that there probably ARE reasons why we have pregnancies with abnormalities - even though they tell us it is random - just that they don't know yet, medically speaking, why it has happened to us. Having said that I also think that you are right, Kittens, to accept the losses as part of the process of trying. Some people try for years and years, without losses, okay, and even with several rounds of IVF, but without getting pregnant either, and end up adopting or without children. We have to accept that for some of us at some times, conceiving successfully is fraught with difficulties. And just hope that we will get there. I agree it's helpful to separate miscarriage from termination here - miscarriage risks are high for everyone really.

I also understand why Bee is haunted. I am too, in a way. And Bee, you do have your three children and your lovely man - I can see why trying again would cost you more. And yet why you want/need to.

In the end we have to do what instinct tells us. And help each other along.

Morning all - read Cant's post about 2hrs ago and has taken me this long to get back to the computer! Was reminded how variable a journey fertility is for some women: my colleague's Mum had her brother when in her 20s, tried and tried again to no avail, gave up and 'forgot' about the idea, I guess. In her early 40s she went to the doctor with stomach ache, turned out she was pregnant with my colleague. Colleague's brother was mortified as, being in his late teens, he didn't want anyone to see him pushing the pram in case they thought little sister was in fact little daughter (much more unusual in those days!)... and from the same generation, there was the woman I knew who carried two babies full term to have both still-born. For this reason I am VERY glad about screening and testing: it doesn't remove the heartbreak but I'd rather know sooner than later.

Oh I wish \i could post properly at the moment as it's so relevant and by the time I can the subject may have moved on. Not been posting as am currently abroad having egg donation - had 3 embryos put back yesterday and am supposed to be resting in teh hotel hence I have some time while DH looks after DD. Sadly not enough time to read back through the last week or so of posts or to frame any useful thoughts/rplies either. But if anyone is ever thinking of going for ir then I now know alot....

Kittens, I'm so sorry, haven't read the other thread abut am guessing things didn't work out with this pg. It's so tiring.

One thing I would say re IVF is they just don 't know how many eggs you've got til you actually have treatment - my hormones are those of a woman in her 20s and my ovaries of a woman of early 30s yet when I went for IVF it turned out I had no eggs left. Although even that is debatable as I then got pg naturally and was told that the baby's problems had nothing to do with old eggs. I now have embryos from a 22 year old in me and still have no faith that it will even work let alone be OK at my scan. The baby making thing - whichever way you manage it - is down to luckas far as I can tell. But if you are at least getting pg then it's astart. Sorry if this is all off topic but as you were discussing it and I'm mid treatment thought i'd add a bit.

Kittens, I'm very sorry to hear the news. I hope you are as ok as can be.

Bee - I duno. How helpfull. If it is the money - then I honestly have to say I would overcome it and find it and go for it. People spend less on cars and holidays. But I totally realise it isn't that simple. Money wise - I do. More bloody decisions and choices.
As the emotional side of donation. Well, I think it is either very complex - as to ownership of the egg and how that effects the relationship between mummy and baby. mummy and daddy..and so on. Or it is very very simple, donor egg is one part of the huge complex team it takes to make IVF work. I take the second view, but then I am spookily pragmatic. Which I would be as I haven't had such deep hurts as you on this thread.

PH - where are you on this journey, if you don't mind me asking and us knowing? If it helps do share with us.

I am on a cobbled up pc at home in the 'back room' A place of dust and no kids allowed. So I can't visit like old times. I can't read the pages very well either as the graphics card is rubbish. Apparently. So forgive me if this post isn't all it should be, or isn't as sensitive as it must be. I will be able to do more when I am back int he land of the lap top.

Cant - regarding your comment about "ARE reasons why we have pregnancies with abnormalities - even though they say it is random"

This may sound strange and I have only ever told my husband this in the past; but I do believe that although we have had some very serious issues in our pregnancies and that our DD is even more special as a result of this. Not in a more wanted, more appreciated way (although of course she is) but in an, in the future someone will be the person who is naturally immune / smarter / better in an evolutionary sense.

I know this sounds psychotic (which is why I have only ever spoken about it to DH) but I do believe that there must be another reason to why this has not only happened to us but why we have had to endure it more than once.

I have had the very unfortunate experience of someone telling me that 'it is natures way of sorting out' etc and rather than take this in the negative sense I just smile and think - Yes, you are right. We have suffered this so as in the future another generation wont have to.

Reading this back I clearly sound mental. But it is something that helps me cope and if I have learned anything by now it is that whatever it takes to get you through the day to do so.

Sorry to be off post. Just felt I needed to say something about this.

God - I think I am cracking up.

I don't know if this is the right place to post. At a 19 week scan last week we discovered that our baby had a lethal condition which meant he would probably be stillborn, and if he was born alive would probably die within a few minutes. We decided to terminate and I went into hospital on Saturday. It went as OK as it possibly could have done (i.e. quickly) but it was still horrendous. I think I geared myself up for a 'medical' experience, but it wasn't. It was painful and raw and emotional. We held our baby (who had already died) to say goodbye to him and it really brought it home that this wasn't an anonymous abnormal blob I was getting rid of, this was my son and a part of our family. He was tiny (no bigger than my hand) but looked perfect and peaceful (down to his finger nails). It was and is just so sad. Thank goodness I have a 2 year old DS who has been an enormous joy and distraction. I know it's early days. I'm still physically exhausted and emotionally up in the air. I know it will get easier. I'm not sure why I'm posting apart from that I maybe need to talk about it. Does any one have any advice? Does any one have any similar experiences with a happy ending? We are waiting for post mortem results to find out whether it was genetic, but have decided either way to try again once we feel healed. I'm 38.

Hi Moneli

I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your baby boy.

I have had two terminations, both for (different) conditions incompatible with life, one at 13 weeks and one at 20 weeks - like you, following the anomaly scan, which diagnosed a fatal condition. I too held my baby (funnily enough I remember her as being quite big - bigger than my hand - but maybe that is memory playing tricks. Sometimes I see baby dolls and think they look like my lost daughter).

It does get easier - you learn to accept it as part of your life, and you get on with things, and having a toddler definitely helps that (no time to brood). But I can say that the experience changed me irreversibly and not necessarily in a good way: I am much more anxious than I was. Having said that, I know that I have strength I'd never have imagined.

I am pregnant again now - 30 weeks. The first few scans were hellish, frankly - I was terrified. This was obviously compounded as I've had the horror happen twice, apparently randomly, which made me more paranoid. I'm calmer now. I wouldnt call myself a success story though as I've a way to go before this baby is born. There are people on this thread - Lins and Shangrila - who have terminated more than once and who recently had lovely healthy little boys. They would be your success stories and their 'happy endings' cheer me.

In terms of trying again, I waited three months after the first termination and got pregnant immediately, then lost the baby at 20 weeks as I said above. This time I waited for one period to come, tried again after that and again got pregnant straight away. This time, so far, so good.

Talking does help, I think. Mainly to create a space where you can think and remember and work out what comes next with people who get it, here.

I hope you're doing okay. It is raw for a while. It isnt something anyone would want to do. Be kind to yourself.

PS Sorry that was so long!

Oh Moneli, I'm so sorry to see that you've joined us, but you most definitely have posted in the right place. My own experience is a little different as we terminated considerably sooner - at about 13 weeks after a chromosomal problem was diagnosed. But I understand a little of how you must be feeling, and I definitely remember how difficult these first few days in particular are. I think the only advice I can offer is to take things really easy on yourself and live as gently as you can for a while. I started off feeling terribly numb, and then up and down and swinging between sadness and anger at the unfairness of it all. It will get easier, but as Can't says, it is unlikely to ever leave you completely. But there are lights at the end of the tunnels, and many women here can give you hope and inspiration.

I've found this place a huge comfort - just by 'listening' to the words and seeing that people here really understand what I went through. It reassured me that all the feelings I had were 'normal' (or at least as normal as they needed to be) and that I could just be here without having to keep explaining and justifying myself.

I also tried again - I waited about three months after the termination and then it took maybe another five months to get pregnant. I'm currently 8 weeks, and hoping that this time, things might work out differently. You must cling on to the hope. Take care. xxx

So sorry you've had to join us Moneli. I can't really add anything to Cant's wise words. Hug your daughter, and hold her close.

Much love
BK x

Moneli, I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of your son. I do hope that you find writing about it has helped in some small way. If it has, we are always here to listen. I terminated in 2008 due to a diagnosis of DS. Although it isn't a lethal diagnosis, for us it was one full of too many unknowns, with too many possible implications for our family, for us to go ahead with the pregnancy. I delivered at almost 18 weeks. It is heartbreaking, I know.
It took me approx 1 yr to conceive again, although I hadn't really been actively 'trying' for much of this time (having a partner that works away made trying a bit of a waste of time anyway). I gave birth to my little girl nearly 3 weeks ago (I am 40). Although she had a few problems at the start of her life, it was nothing chromosomal. She is now, hopefully, a perfectly healthy little girl who delights our whole family. So, Moneli, there definitely is hope of a happy ending for you and your family. Take care if yourself, and please come back if you feel it helps xx

Hello to everyone. Just to quickly let you know that Bella is doing fine. I will update properly soon, just feels like now is not the right time? Thank you all for continuing to think of us. I read every night as I am feeding, but as I explained on the other thread, I'm usually in no frame of mind to post at that time (who knows what I'd babble on with at 3 in the morning!) Thinking of you all xxxx

Please do write Mishtabel. I'd love to hear about Bella. I keep thinking about you both and wondering how you're gettitng on.

Much love

BK x

I'm so pleased to hear about Bella, Mishtabel. How wonderful for you. Thanks for your kind words Cant and Littlepoot. Cant, it must have been so hard for you to go through this twice. But now you're 30 weeks pregnant and that's great. The hospital have probably been extra cautious with you, given your history, so I'm sure your baby will be healthy and bonny. Littlepoot, at 8 weeks things look very positive for you too. I'm sure you're anxious about your scan but the chances are it'll all be just fine. Quick question for you two, was there any medical reason why you at first waited 3 months before trying to conceive again? Or was that just when you felt mentally ready?

Welcome Moneli, sorry to hear of your loss and I hope you find some comfort on this thread. I hope you get the results soon so you can move forward. As has been said there are plenty of success stories here.

Bezzy - how are things with you?

Bee - I don't know what to say but wanted to acknowledge your posts somehow. I know if it was me I'd definately try egg donation but that is just me. I know you don't share genes but the baby is still grown by you. What does your LM think?

peanuthead - good luck!

Mishtabel - you sound settled and happy, looking forward to hearing more news.

Kittens -don't know the details but am sorry things didn't work out for you,

Sorry not been on a few days, kids been ill. Have loads of paperwork to catch up on, half term is on Friday and got family visiting a week after that (how to put a family of 4 into our part renovated house?!) too much to do ....

Busy helps but am remembering that happy baby place I occupied for a few precious weeks last year. The half term break when the MS had subsided and we had snow and I went sledging with the kids and I assumed it would be another trouble free pregnancy. I am glad I had that innocent time when I didn't know even though it ended so badly. Am kind of looking forward to getting the termination anniversary out of the way though, finding am weary of tihnking about it all. Want to think about "why don't cars blow away?" the question ds2 asked today He's at that "why?" stage. Very wearing but charming.

Love to all. xxx

Hi Moneli. When I had my termination, my consultant recommended I should wait three months before trying again. I told him I didn't really believe him because in my experience, three months is just a figure all medical professionals band about with no real thought or justification. He did tell me though that after a full term pregnancy, there's a slightly higher chance of premature birth if you get pregnant again within the first three months. But of course, we're not dealing with full term pregnancies so there's no telling if that figure means anything in our case.

In the end I decided to play it by ear. But then I bled for pretty much 8 weeks (sorry - too much information) afterwards and then had to take some antibiotics so we decided to wait for one normal cycle before trying. That took me up to the mystical three months anyway, so I never got to test my theory that the doctors are just making it up. Then again, I did also spend most of those first two months out drinking and eating very pregnancy-unfriendly food so probably best for me to have waited. Incedentally, mentally I probably wasn't really ready until about 6 months later, but that didn't stop me trying. I am worried about the scans now, but I'm not nearly as much of a basketcase as I would have been if it had happened sooner. But that's just me.

Others on here haven't waited long at all and don't seem to have had problems. Katiecubs in particular I think got pregnant pretty quickly after a termination last year and is now at 13/14 weeks. Sorry Katie - hope that's right? So I think its just a good idea to play it by ear and see how you feel.

Hi Moneli - so sorry for your loss, you have found the right place to come here though.

I had a termination at 14 weeks for a chromosomal disorder and as Littlepoot says i got pregnant after my first AF (however it worked out i conceived about 2.5 months after my termination as my cycles were very long). The advice my doctor gave me was that there was no need to wait and that i could try right away if i wanted to, i think they sometimes say 1-3 months but it is more for emotional healing rather than anything else.

I'm so pleased to have made it past the NT scan (this is where i got bad news last time)but i still have a long way to go so just taking it one step at a time. I hope we see you on the sister (pregnancy) thread soon as and when you feel ready. Good luck and take care xxx

Big wave to everyone else (i'm mainly hiding out in the other thread now but still stop by to catch up when i can) xxx

Hi Moneli.

I waited three months the first time not cos anyone told me to (they didnt offer any opinions as it happens!) but because I felt I needed a little break from being pregnant and wanted to wait to try till my periods were a bit normal again. Also I kept bleeding.

The second time I waited for first AF because I remembered the first AF after the first termination was horribly heavy and clotty, and I thought it best to get that over with and start with a clean slate.

Hi Mishtabel, do come tell us about Bella. I can understand your anxiety. What is going wrong with the monitor? How tricky that must be for you.

Peanuthead - it's quite exciting that you've got these embryos inside you now - does it feel like a new start, or can you not really believe in it yet? Good luck anyway.

Eulalia, your DS2 sounds so cute. I love that question.

Bee, how are you doing?

Hi to everyone else.

Hi,
I have decided to move on from my other thread as everytime I read my first post it just reminds me that when I wrote it there was still some hope that everything would be okay. I'm not high risk for 2nd time, my definition has changed. I'm grieving for a longed for baby for the 2nd time. It seems important to me. Just so desperately need to be pregnant, still feel so empty, and hopeless. I've taken my full dose of diazepam and i'm still wide awake and in so much agony. I know it must have been like this last time, but at least then I had the hope of becoming pregnant again easily. I keep holding my daughters close and trying to convince myself that I'm asking for too much, that I should be grateful, but this baby was so real and so wanted,I cant just replace what I felt with the love I already have for my daughters. Probably makes no sense.
Have no bleeding so at least I know I could start trying to conceive soon as possible (maybe the trying will distract from the miniscule odds of it actually happening). No idea when I'll ovulate, or even if I will, having had an ovary removed 4 weeks ago. Last time I bled for 6 weeks then had an ERPC, then waited for one period, then got pregnant with my daughter. If only that could happen again. I sat on the beach today, in rain, then sun, and the sea was really rough, and I felt so hopeless and so lost. I then feel so guilty as I have my husband and children to be thankful for.
Sorry, going on and on again.
Moneli - sorry to hear of your loss too...with our first loss I conceived very quickly, and it helped me focus on the future, but this time if we had any real chance of conceiving, (and as it is second time around, despite different Trisomies) I suppose we would have waited until after the genetics stuff was sorted out. as it is, we dont have much chance, so I'm not missing a single opportunity. (although god only knows how I will find the motivation behind all this sadness).
nightnight
BL

Moneli: sorry to hear of your experiences, so recent and raw. I also lost a DD last summer at around 16wks due to Patau's syndrome (was going to end the pregnancy but in fact she'd already died just before). We went ahead with the booked induction - and like you, held our baby (again she was very small, I think her condition had limited her growth) and cried many tears. I think it helped: I do have mixed feelings about seeing her, but it did give our grief a focal point. Also we had a blessing from the lovely hospital chaplain. Like you our DS was approaching 2yo at the time, so gave daily life a focus and got me out of the house (though I often went places I wouldn't have to 'engage' with other mums). Being on this thread and getting the support, comfort and empathy of others really helped - finding that all the feelings you have are normal and that others understand and have been through this. I think in the days after, hiding is normal, plus being emotionally and physically exhausted. I think I just felt tired for a week, too tired to really feel anything. Gradually I've found that I can talk to people about it though, and I am now pregnant again and have even in telling some people about this pregnancy, told them about the last. As for TTC, we tried almost straight away because it had taken me sometime to conceive before, and I was then 39. I didn't conceive first cycle (which I got very sad about, I think you really long for hope again after something like this) but I did the second time around. Bled early on with this pregnancy but had lots of support/scans etc, and now all seems to be going OK (now nearly 20wks).

Peanuthead: hope all is going OK for you over in Turkey and that you can feel luck coming your way; really hope, fingers crossed etc.

Eulalia: you sound so wistful for your remembered happy baby times of last year, I think that pre-scan innocence is something most of us will remember with equal love and sadness - something that was not to be. I am glad that you have your family around you to distract and entertain (and exhaust); I do like your DS2's question - was it a VERY windy day??

Tree: hope you get that laptop sorted out soon! Old computers are very very very frustrating (my one at work isn't that old and it's frustrating!).

Justa: thinking of you, your family, Mum and your new 'normal life'. Hope you are resting.

Bee: you are quiet. I hope your thoughts are forming a pattern for you on what way forward works best. Thinking of you and your LM.

I always think I say 'hope' too much in my posts, I don't want to devalue it by overuse; but on the other hand 'hope' is such a powerful word, sometimes it makes all the difference.

xxx

Babylily, missed your post as took so long writing my other one.

It seems to me that your loss is all the more acute because of the struggle you had to conceive this longed-for and lost baby. I think Peanuthead already posted on your other thread, her circumstances are similar to yours. It is all the more heartbreaking when you have this sudden, unlikely, longed for, struggled for amazing hope of new life; and then you are placed in the position of deciding whether to end that new, longed-for life for the best of everyone, including that baby. I think in your situation anyone would feel bewildered, angry, frustrated and lost.

It will take time. And anything you feel in that time is a way of coping with it - grief, anger, emptiness, loss and lost. You did what you did for the love of everyone, your girls, and for your unborn baby. You can talk about how you feel, all the things you feel, on here - and no-one will judge you; and I think it is important to air your feelings, any anger you have about the unfairness or randomness of life. So post away, write down anything you feel comfortable saying, or even some of the uncomfortable things. And don't beat yourself up about how you should feel. Yes, loss can make you value those around you more, for having them there - but not at the cost of replacing/denying the love and loss you feel for the baby that is no longer there. You can be grateful the love that is with you in your girls and family but it is balanced and weighed against the loss and grief for the one that is not there. I think also after your stressful pregnancy and recent loss you must feel exhausted, emotionally and physically.

Be gentle on yourself.
xx

Hi all, just posted an update on Bella on the other thread - thank you Bezz and all for thinking of us. I felt this thread at this time is more useful in supporting those in acute stages of the painful journey, such as Babylily and Moneli. Hello to you both, and welcome Babylily. Your pain is palpable. We are here to hold your hand. Re: being grateful, you don't have to explain yourself here, or feel that what you're saying makes no sense - we do understand. That is the beauty of the thread. Come and post what you want, when you want. I hope we can be of some help. Take care xx

Eulalia, hope your dc's are feeling better. Did you give ds the short answer (too heavy) or try to explain gravity? BTW your weekend away sounded divine (x-posted with you at the time). Love to hear snippets of your life.

Thinking of you Bee xx

Oh Misthabel, just read your message on the other thread. How completely exhausting for you. And a touch on the obsessive side from the paeds. I commend you for 'trying not to be neurotic' it must be so very difficult, given what you've already been through. Please excuse my naivety, but is SIDS more like to recur in a family that has already experienced it?

Understand your concern about her weight, but surely if she's doing everything right, then that should sort itself out? She's proved that she's a fighter, she's going to be just fine.

Good to see that you've joined us over here Babylily, I hope that we can be of help to you in the weeks/months to come.

Can't really write anymore, I think of you all, just exhausted, as I have lots going on.

Thanks for asking about me Eulalia xx