support thread for women who have chosen to terminate II

[brightonbaby]

Erm, trying to create a new thread for us, ladies. Not sure if I've succeeded...

Forgot to add, odds were 1 in 26, even though they're really bad, I was still pretty confident at it meant there was a 94% chance all was ok...oh well, I guess SOMEBODY has to be that 1....I should buy more lottery tickets....so should you bee, you've defied all odds.

Hi all

Bezzy - I had a nuchal for the pregnancy in October that went wrong - outcome 1:2 that there was a chromosomal problem (and in any case baby submerged in fluid so no chance of survival). Opted for CVS initially to see what the problem was - we had the scan on Monday afternoon, and they gave us CVS 9 am Tuesday, but it couldn't be done as my placenta was awkward, and eventually they made it clear baby couldn't survive anyway so I just had the termination and a postmortem, couldnt face waiting for cvs.

This time around, free nuchal on NHS, risk something crazily low, no problems until 20 week scan when everything was wrong - but things nobody would be able to see before 14-16 weeks, so undetectable by nuchal.

I think follow your gut instinct; it will serve you right.

Oh - amusing anecdote for you all - today I was in the park having Pret sandwich lunch, and I spotted an old colleague some distance away who I'd not seen for a couple of years, but I knew she was getting married last June. Anyway she was sitting under a tree with another woman I didnt know, plus a pram. I assumed the baby was hers (honeymoon babe...) and hid from them as I couldnt face the congratulations or the fact that it had all been so easy for them. Eventually I peeked from where I was with my friends - and she had gone and the other woman was sat feeding the baby a bottle, so clearly it WASN'T her baby...
Am I mad or what?!

Williams sisters final AGAIN. Dull...

Got to go put DD to bed, more later no doubt.

Silly Bezz - do not mind at all telling you. I am in the same boat re trying so it is helpful to think carefully about it all. Your odds were not too bad honey. What a shock really.
So many women who have had a termination for DS go on to have a healthy baby. Really they do. Go for it and we are here to offer support and cheer you on.
Off for dinner in pub with colleague also training here.
Very pretty here in rural idyll of Near to Arundel castle.
V poshe.
I will be back.Post wine.
I JUST LOVE WINE

GU - gutted for you about your funding. Thats crap mate.

Delighted for you about the one growing up as we speak, in your belly. Thats more like it!

BB - It takes me back Bee, hearing some of your story again. Back to the early days when your reality hit so many of us between the eyes and led to the creation of this place.

You are all in such hard places. Trying to decide what to do, trying to see into the future without crystal balls. I have said this to many couples trying to decide on screening - it would be ok if you knew what was going to happen, the decision would be easy. So many people screen on the assumption it will be a reassuring result. All here have seen that there is no solid ground in life really. I find it scary, knowing that the rug can be pulled from under you at any moment.

The upshot [in a strange way] is that other stuff doesn't matter quite so much after these events. I got a job in a department store when in between midwifery jobs - people were stressed and running about and worrying about this and that, targets and sales. I used to just stand and watch - really, why worry about these things too much? What does any of it matter measured against the real life happenings of a delivery suite?

Am sure will be less in tune with my karma watching Andy Murray in the semi.

GU - I can understand that. They have pissed on your bonfire, as the saying goes.

GU - is there any chance that the university might have bursaries that could fund your thesis? and could you ask for that? Let me know if I can help you with this as (she says vaguely, trying to hide her identity and job) this is something I know a lot about. Gutting that the church can just do that though - the university (itself a fairly hierarchical and bewildering institution) would tend not to if a good report from a supervisor supported the student...

Very good news about the baby though - hurrah!

I don't think you should feel lousy and guilty GU, for what it's worth. This is a crappy thing, and its harsh management by the people you give so much too. You are right to be pissed off, you have a right to be angry and upset.

Life and chance played the hand that hit the ladies here - this crappola that's hit you is typical humans being shitty to each other stuff. So it's a different type of crap - but it's still crap.

You go ahead and feel gutted. Maybe at the weekend or sometime, your family and bean will help you feel better and help you work through it.

GU, I do CAT (well I signed up for it - and I CATed one person who had the same loss as me, and it worked. I can't say I CAT all the time). I'll see if I can make it work tomorrow.

Weary tonight. Heat and just general, well, tiredness, mixed with apathy and general blahness.

But have to sing along with Bee - I love wine, too.

GU -- agree the timing is terrible, but before you do anything, think about it possibly being an enforced break? Were you planning to take a break after the baby was born, or are you intent on keeping up the pace?

Guess what I'm suggesting is to take a step back and think about what would suit you best with 2 young children.

BB Your Love wine comment made me think of Austin Powers in Goldmember where he says 'I luuurve Goooollldd'! Does anybody know what I'm on about?

GU pudding, firstly, CONGRATS on the scan! You must be so relieved! I'm so sorry about your funding problems that have stolen the babies thunder. I really do hope that Can't can help sort it all out.

Thanks everyone for your nuchal stories, really appreciate the advice. I know it seems like I'm jumping the gun a bit, but I want to be prepared, cause I know once (if) I get that positive test, I'm going to be a wobbling mess, so need to have my thoughts straight on what it is I need to do.

So, my plan of action, is to call my midwife (she did say to me that even though I was no longer pregnant she was happy to answer any questions I may have) and clarify what the NHS will offer me, as I'm hoping I'll get an early dating scan that will enable me to book to get nuchal and CVS done, and obv I want nuchal done at earliest possible date, which I think is 11+3. However, think I'll get nuchal done at FMC Harley Street. I need to know that the best person is doing it.

Waffle waffle waffle, sorry for boring you all, but hope my ramblings may help someone, someday!

BK xx

Gu - surely this is not at all ethical? If they have funded you so far - surely it makes no sense to pull the carpet from under your feet in this manner?
Do they know you are with child?
Is this some perverse anti-pregnancy nonsense?
I am sorry to hear this as i know the time and effort you have invested in your thesis.
Cantdo - your job intrigues me as am sure you said at one stage you worked with people i'in a pickle' and now you are linked to bursaries and universities. It sounds a fascinating mix!

Can I just say hello to my lovely Lins who I hope is lurking and reading. Lins with the gorgeous pins - you are in my thoughts and am praying and knowing that your scan will be full of good news like GU's today.
GU- you are pregnant and you are going to have a baby - this is so wonderful. So sorry they have delivered this bad news in a clumsy way. I am sure it is not acceptable.

Tree- thank you sweet pea for recognising the journey that started all those months ago with my sad little plea for support when pregnant second time around. You have been there for the bumpy ride - and I genuinely appreciate it. Constance is a very valuable attribute.
xxxxxx

Maybe Cant is Mrs Ed Balls?

Thats got to be good for a bursary GU.

Love to Bee.

Bezzy - you will certainly be offered a nuchal I should think. I'm also fairly sure the fetal medicine team you dealt with last time would advise you if you rang the secretaries and asked for a telephone conversation. Might help?

A question : if a nuchal came back with 1:400 or 1:4000 chance of Down's. Would it answer your need for information and reassurance?
I only ask as sometimes, having been through what you have, people cannot deal with risks anymore. They need answers. Don't even ackowledge this question if it is too much though Bezzy. And I'm always happy to be told bugger off

Bezz - love!
Ooh I do love you and your funny little observations. I do not remember the 'i love gold' thing but can kind of imagine it.
Like the plan babes. Makes sense. To be honest 'Trust the Professor'. Look at his little video on the web. He is strangely seductive. He is your dude for absolutely accurate information - he truly is. I'm coming with you!
Also re dating scans - the hospitals I used for the second sad baby both gave me a dating scan. It is imperative to get accurate scan information as then the nuchal can be done as early as possible. Especially as your periods may be un peu all over the place.
Can I share an observation? I have been in fear and judgement of the use of exclamation marks. I really have. They seem to belittle to me extreme emotion. You can not hide behind punctuation. I have refrained from using them in all my posts. And then recently they have crept in. What does that tell me? That the heaviness, the inability to trivialise, the sorrow, has weighed heavily on me.
Now I use them with gay abandon. I think partly it may be the wine. But more critically it is the lightening of my spirit. And, this is going to sound perverse, there is a tiny bit of me that misses the voice of me when I was so lost and swamped with misery. Because at least then I was still connected to those poor babies.
No exclamation marks in that sentence.

Ah Treetops - I was asked that question by my midwife this time. Would I be happy with odds of 1.300 or whathaveyou. My answer was ' chance would be a fine thing'. But in honesty - I would have had a cvs anyway. My trust is shattered.
What say you Bezzy?

Bezzy - obviously go with what you're comfortable with, but Bristol has some fab people. St Michaels, Southmead, Nuffield (private). I lurrrvvved my consultant. The fetal medicine unit at St Michaels is brilliant. I had amnio done by a Professor very experienced. Oh, and if you do decide to go with St Michaels, the fetal medicine unit has a 50 inch plasma screen for amnio. One of the patients husbands donated one after they were frequent flyers there.

I LOOVE GOOOLD

Completely understand where you're coming from Bee in ref to exclamation marks. You're never going to forget your babies though, ever.

When I went to the doctor to announce this most recent pregnancy, I sat in there and wailed because my previous miscarriage came up. I sobbed and sobbed. And even though I have my beautiful mini bez, number 1 has still never been forgotten. In fact I'm shedding a tear for him / her now.

BK x

hello Ilovemy
Excellent to give Bezz some contacts in Bristol - I do think there is something to be said for continuity of care. Do you remember Bezz also I had my bloods done before my nuchal so that the result could be given that day? No one had ever asked for or arranged this before. They were impressed by my obsessive detailing. Makes sense to me though - to have the bloods for the double test done before the nuchal - not on same day - else have to wait for the blood test to come through.

Is wearing this whole business.

Yes, agree, think I'll have the CVS regardless. Have read stories of people finding out at 20+ weeks that they're carrying a Down's baby after having good test results of 1 in 200 and something. (admittedly I think it was just the triple test though)

Thanks for the advice Ilove, I did have my nuchal at Nuffield and then had CVS at Southmead and the service was very good. My one gripe was that I had both dating scan and nuchal scan done at Nuffield with the same consultant (who also consults at St Michaels) anyway, I did advise him before dating scan that the reason we were doing all of this was because DD was high risk (1 in 85 after triple blood test) and ended up having amnio with her and I really wanted to avoid the same happening again, so decided on the nuchal. So he knew we were already wary.

Anyway at dating scan (which was week before nuchal) he said to us that he sees nothing at all to be worried about and that nuchal will be plain sailing the following week, and that we should be fine to announce the pregnancy. Well nuchal wasn't good, he scanned for AGES could feel him getting more and more tense while he was taking measurements, afterwards was when he broke the news about the 1 in 26 (but suspect he knew that it really should have been worse than that as he was VERY sombre). This was after I'd announced to the world the impending arrival of Bez number 2.

HENCE (sorry for the long and boring story) I'd rather just go to the best and have all the trauma over with in one day.

BK x

Yes Bezz - I see that.
You are a lady what likes to know how things are. No messing.
Bloody irritating consultants, all jolly.
I remember the excrutiatingly painful cvs this time and the consultant saying ' Well, that went brilliantly'.
I snapped at him ' there is nothing brilliant about any of this'.
He know the baby had T21.
I knew.
He knew I knew.
I knew he knew.
So yes the Prof (bow down to his greatness) - he does not play silly buggers. He tells it how it is. He is like a God. He swoops majestically into the room, a respectful silence descends. He holds your arm. He looks you in the eye. He says - you have a fifty percent chance it will be okay.
He bestows a smile.
He jabs you in the abdomen.
You swear.
He leaves.
You wait.
They call.
It will be okay Bezz - just you wait.
Now get that slinky nightie on.Now.

I could put on that slinky nightie, but the only action I'm going to get is when my cat climbs into bed with me

Capt C still in the office, apparently a crisis....that they expect to last until 17 July, so no positive tests this month!

Ah, you meant the testing...

I read:

He bestows a smile.
He jabs you in the abdomen.
You swear.
He leaves.
You wait...

and thought you meant, um, duvet dancing!

OK, I'm going back to laundry....