How deprived do you have to be to move in a man into your home a day of ‘knowing’ him on Facebook? *[Content warning: concerns child abuse]

Tbh the defining factor is the mother who moves a strange man into the house. Or a woman.

That person is given huge privileges over the children, the money, given sex, and quickly takes the role they want, being in charge of the household. They then discipline or beat the children to death in these cases.

I am glad that these women, who do nothing to protect their children are also being prosecuted. They allow and permit these murders to happen, and socially, I don't know what you do. A sane person knows introducing a stranger into their household with children is a big risk.

These mothers do not care about that. They can't protect their children because they don't have the insight or maturity to do it. They won't magically get it from a few courses either. There a lot of these cases where these women meet men online who say they will look after them. And those women just accept it.

Teenage Pregnancy might not be the best thing in the world, but it's certainly not the worse. And it's not exactly something new it's always happened and always will.
shotgun marriage has always been a thing.

The vast majority of teenage mums kids turn out OK.
The best guide to how well a child will do in life is how well the Grandparents did. Even if one generation go astray the Grandparents can step up and provide a safety net for the kids.

You do realise that is often part of the cycle of abuse? Keeping the partner pregnant and therefore vulnerable difficult for her to up and leave with a tiny kid and another on the way.

Maybe this is all stuff girls should be taught in school

Denmark does have very good outcomes for their 'looked after children' but it focuses on stability with in small children's homes rather than Foster carers.

Yes @Sugarfree23 that's probably the only way to do it if you are going to remove all the children who should be removed because there would not be enough foster carers to make that viable. But in those children's homes the children have secure, stable and good quality places to live in a family-like environment, generally very good long-term consistency in carers, proper pastoral care and support, therapy needed, lots of extra-curricular opportunities and educational support and generally every possible help they can (and should) be given to help them recover from neglect and trauma and have a stable upbringing where they feel safe and cared for. Hence the outcomes for those children being indistinguishable from the general population of children raised by parents (which in Denmark are high anyway) and obiously a far preferable childhood than being raised in squalor, abuse and neglect. It can be done, we just have to change the law, remove the children as soon as neglect and abuse becomes appararent and fund their care properly.

So you are proposing removing children at birth then? Even before people become parents?

What's next, we just sterilise them before they even become pregnant? Maybe at 16 SS could visit all girls, assess whether they would be bad mums.

Omg I've just seen this.

What on Earth are you talking about?? I never said anything of the sort, at all.

Aaargh I know I said I'd not reply to that poster again but WTAF.

First accusing me of saying that we should support abusive parents more when I'd criticised their comment about how we should try to "understand" the abusers and "help" them, and I'd responded by saying that children should be removed immediately that abuse becomes apparent. And then this poster claiming this meant I was saying that children should be assessed at 16 for whether they should have compulsory sterilisation.

Unbelievable. And just so utterly ridiculous given what I have actually said in my posts.

I do wonder - when people like this appear and make such self-contradictory comments and pretend other posters have said the opposite of what they have stated clearly - where this motivation to defend abusers comes from.

I am going to hide this now as I said, came back because someone else tagged one of my posts.

I'm so sorry for little Lola, these cases haunt my thoughts. This could have been prevented so easily, she didn't have to be left with these monsters.

Maybe. Because men are at fault for being abusive but women have to protect their children. They can’t keep being given a free pass, it does no one any favours. It did Lola no favours.

You keep coming back though - and when you do you ignore the vast majority of what I say and then accuse me of being stupid and offensive. I am neither.

I get you are upset, I get you don't want to engage. In which case don't. But there really is no need to suggest I am saying or doing something I am not.

For the last time - because I've said in in different ways several times now, which you repeatedly ignore - I didn't say we should help the abusers. I said we should understand why they turn into abusers so we can help people (OTHER PEOPLE!) develop the skill and access the support they need to be good parents and avoid the creation of further bad parents to the extent it is possible. Because often prevention is better than cure.

I am talking about understanding why to provide the help and support so it doesn't happen to others.

People capable of doing this to a child can't be helped.

I said we should understand why they turn into abusers so we can help people (OTHER PEOPLE!*) develop the skill and access the support they need to be good parents and avoid the creation of further bad parents to the extent it is possible. Because often prevention is better than cure.

They are not "bad parents" who can be somehow "helped" to be better. The level of intervention these people have and still do this shows that quite clearly. The "extent it is possible" is next to zero, hence repeated child deaths. The children's needs should be prioritised over the adults' "rights" to force children to endure abusive and neglectful childhoods and the resources should be focused on removing the children not "supporting" the adults doing this to them.

When I was younger I trained as a nursery nurse. I was in a placement where there were two brothers. The mother knew that her husband and BIL sexually abused these two little boys but kept saying "it's better to have a man in your life than none at all." At 19 it absolutely horrified me and still does. Mental health and/or learning difficulties isn't an excuse. The women that say "they didn't know what was going on" do and they lie. You'd need to be blind to not know what was going on under your own roof.

This

@QuertyGirl interesting question about Surestart centres. Our local one was a good 3 mile walk away in a deprived area. Me and my friend used to walk there and back in the summer with our babies/toddlers as it was a lovely place. Sadly the parents it was aimed at, those right on the centre's doorstep, weren't interested in attending the "stay and play"s etc
The workers there tried so hard to reach out, door knocking etc to try to get the parents to engage. I really felt for them.
Like a pp said, sometimes we forget not everyone thinks/acts/ parents like we do. A day at home with a baby/toddler is a looooong day so I'd try to get out of the house every day for our sanity and would attend any baby group going. I assumed everyone and anyone would bendigo from this - mothers and babies.

Yes I know that. My point was in answer to posters upthread who seemed to think that putting women and children in supported accommodation would stop shit things happening. It won’t.

@FlatWhiteExtraHot sorry.

I totally agree.

People like that will never, ever be able to keep a child safe with any amount of "support". Let alone give them a good childhood. We need to raise the bar of what is expected, a lot. And lower the threshold for removal, a lot.

Jesus. That is heartbreaking. I hope the nursery reported them and SS removed those poor boys. 😓

this one was awful, that little girl was in the room for days, I assume crying on and off and not a single staff member knew or checked the room.

none of them noticed that the child hadn't left or did a walk round of the building just utter utter shit.

Are some women biologically or psychologically wired to prioritise men over anything else even though that usually results in a child?

I remember reading the Brighton story... mum went off partying.

This is like our version of America’s gun control debate.

Something terrible happens (a murdered child, a school shooting), everyone collectively shakes their head and wonders how things can change, but nothing ever does.

It’s depressingly familiar. Of course there are no easy answers, or we’d have them by now. It kills my soul to imagine all the other little Lola’s out there tonight suffering like she did.

It is really upsetting to read this monster being described in some articles as Lolas "stepfather". He was a strange man her mum let in the house. The word Father should not be applied in these situations. She had a father and he is grieving. Poor man.

The people who were meant to be supporting weren't exactly doing their job either.

But I still think for many it would help break the cycle of being dragged up, possibly via the care system, then being young having kids who are in turn dragged up or in and out of care.

The current system of waiting until things are horrendous before removing kids, then they end up in care / foster homes and running away.

What suggestions have you go to break the cycle - care isn't exactly brilliant either.

It's awful, all around. No one should live that life, or die because of it. For anyone who reads, please look at Theodore Dalrymple's books. They are the view of a Birmingham GP and prison doctor. He's usually dismissed as a Telegraph columnist and therefore not on the side of the poor and deprived, but he worked in that world for 20+ years, and his opinions are frank. Brutally frank.

You make care homes better. Far, far better. They doesn't have to be shit. Per my posts earlier and examples from other countries, of how public policy needs changing.

What you don't do is leave children in "homes" with so-called parents when there are clear signs of squalor, neglect or even abuse and just wait to see what happens, or kid yourself that such people are ever going to be decent parents with any kind of "support".

You remove the children and give them a decent life.