America's Gun Control

Is that what you took from my thread, that I was arguing the US has effective gun control?

I said it had some, then made the comparison with UK knife control, to point out that these laws are not particularly effective.

The places in the US with the highest level of gun control are often the places with the highest level of gun crime.

Many cities in the US have entire teams of police dedicated to getting illegally held firearms off the street, yet it's still a mess.

It would be a thousand times worse if they tried to disarm previously law abiding citizens.

Not sure why I am engaging with you, since, as you keep saying, you can't argue with stupid.

@Nolongera - I think part of the problem of understanding is that as Brits we're conditioned to think that hardly anybody has a need for a gun of any kind so they just dismiss the notion of legal gun owners, and most Brits really don't understand the implications of the American constitution.

@wonderingdaily - that was part of the point @Nolongera was aiming at regarding knife crime.

I personally find that just rather insulting. I am fully aware the UK is not US and there are few reasons why some would genuinely need a particular gun. But not every American and not every gun.

It's bullshit to say no one outside of the US understands what's going on.

@Gotskeaswr - all I can tell you is that many posters on this thread don't understand the American constitution and political system, and don't understand the difference in attitudes to guns generally, even among otherwise liberal voters.

Half American here - lived in the US. Work and travel extensively in US now. Married to a US citizen. Kids are dual citizens.
Half my family are auS and live in US. Studied US politics.
Because someone has a differing opinion to yours DOESN’T mean they don’t understand a culture, the law, the constitution or anything else.
still, thoughts and prayers eh? That’s what’s really needed from people in power, the people who have the authority and opportunity to make any kid of meaning full change. All we can do is trust in god.

It's not about not understanding its about disagreeing. I understand them, i dont dont agree with them. Which is why u don't like.

@Rainbowsandbutterflies1990 - your perception of why anybody has a "genuine need" is irrelevant. It is a legal right. It is very difficult to remove legal rights from anybody, and right now given the dominance of Republican legislatures in the states and the dominance of an ultra right wing SCOTUS there is not a chance of doing more than tinkering round the edges. Believe me, it's pretty damn frustrating for those of us who live here and don't perceive ourselves as having a need for a gun, but it's even more frustrating to be lectured by people who have no understanding of the realities of dealing with systems.

Which is so weird because on 1 hand u seem to completely understand the insanity of guns in US but on other tieing urself up in knots trying to justify them u can't have it both ways

I disagreed with Brexit and I thought it was pretty stupid to vote for it, but 52% of votes went that way. Shall I lecture you on the stupidity and insist that it would be really easy to rejoin?

Haven’t RTFT, but I have visited the US almost every year for over 40 years and still go regularly on business. I’ve been to over 40 States. Love the country and generally love the people I meet and deal with.
But… there are a couple of conversations I have learned simply not to have. One of them is “the 2nd Amendment discussion”. The words that an American and a non-American speak to each other on this subject may all be in English, but we’re not speaking the same language at all. There is literally no mutual understanding whatsoever. It is a vast cultural divide. I’m happy to be on my side of it, but I’m not up to the task of persuading others to try to cross!
It is also true that the Supreme Court of the US has broadened the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment significantly since the 1970s. Don’t try to point that out either…
There are of course many Americans who do “get it”, but not enough to vote on this single issue. Would always recommend Texan (yes, really) comedian Bill Hicks’ take on the 2nd!

And if anything I've said has been seen as "justifying" the situation rather than trying to explain it, you really haven't understood.

Well u could do but it would be waste of time because I agree with u lol and then telling us its easy to rejoin then obviously we all know including urself that isn't case so would be pointless

Of course my opnion on what is genuine need is irrelevant, like everything I personally think about guns in the US . My opnion isn't going to do or help with anything. That doesn't mean people in the UK shouldnt be allowed to express any opinions.
U sound like u agree to be honest and I get it must be incredibly frustrating, I'm genuinely sorry u have to go through it. I just think dismissing others from other countries of not understanding and therefore their opnion doesn't matter is obviously frustrating but then we don't need to live with the reality of guns like u do.

The NRA and the other supporters of widespread gun ownership always quote 'the constitutional right to bear arms' as though the constitution was sacred but it has been amended many times since its inception.
Because there seems to be no real will to control gun ownership I never even bother reading about shooting tragedies, why should I care if those who have the power to do something don't?

Weirdly my state has one of the higher rates of gun ownership and concealed carry is legal, but I've literally, in twenty years, never seen one except in the hands of hunters and law enforcement.

Some facts: maps.everytownresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Every-State-Fact-Sheet-2.0-042720-Maine.pdf

"IN AN AVERAGE YEAR, 146 PEOPLE DIE
BY GUNS IN MAINE. WITH A RATE OF 9.9 DEATHS PER 100,000 PEOPLE, MAINE HAS THE 40TH-HIGHEST RATE OF GUN DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES.
In Maine, 89% of gun deaths are suicides and 7% are homicides. This is compared to 61% and 36% respectively, nationwide."

@JudgeJ - I suggest you RTFT.

I'm American living in the UK. I despair of other Americans defending the indefensible. This is why things won't change.

It doesn't matter what your culture or beliefs state. They change, they can be changed, same as countless laws that we now find outdated and wrong.

The right to life and liberty should come before the right to bear arms. The right for your children to attend school in safety, like most children throughout the developed world, should come before the right to arm your citizens. The fact that my fellow Americans argue against this demonstrates why we're in the state we're in.

Calling it stupidity is probably kinder than the alternative, which is to call it selfishness or callousness or evil

I'm not defending it, just pointing out the problems that have to be overcome to change it.

Are you unable to process any of the information people are giving you?

For what it's worth, I'm American, live in the UK, and would happily ban every gun in existence, and I can assure you that the rest of the world (being all the Americans I know, who are all for gun control, by the way) also watches in disbelief as Britain willingly makes itself poor and obsolete by voting to remove itself from the most successful economic and political bloc the world has ever known. So big shrug from me to your post.

And by the way, I suggest your sister-in-law moves to a city in a blue state.

@Britinme the problems are not insurmountable, if the will was there. The will is not there. Which looks like either stupidity or callousness, take your pick

@Wallaw Brexit is entirely unrelated to gun massacres. I don't understand your point

The will has to come from enough voters to elect enough liberal politicians to change the legislatures so that three quarters of the legislators agree to amend their state constitutions and then continue to do so until two thirds of the states ratify the amendment and the SCOTUS doesn't knock it down. Should be a snap.