to not want my kids to be fingerprinted?

[BAFE]

Next year the secondary school are bringing in a fingerprint systems for school lunches and the school library.

I feel really uneasy about this. Can I refuse?

Why do you feel uneasy about it?

my son's school does it for meals....no problems

our school library has had this 'thumb print' system for a few years now, the children have never mentioned anything about it.

It is fine, there really is nothing to worry about.

my dd2s school operate the system for lunches, if you don't like it they will issue a card instead.

scurryfunge - aren't you worried that the school will hand your son's fingerprints over to the police if they ask?

I think you can opt out but the system makes it difficult to do so...they refuse cash but I think you an set up direct debits into the account for meals.

They can't do that BAFE. If the police want your child's fingerprints because they suspected them of an offence, then they would detain the child to do so.

well those of you that already use the system, what do you think of this fictional scenario

your (fingerprinted) child and a gang of other (non-fingerprinted) kids from another school burgle a house. they'll get away with it and your kid will be punished because the school will have to hand over the fingerprints to the police if they ask.

Or am I over-thinking things.

YANBU

I'd object on the basis that it softens kids up - if they've been used to being fingerprinted at school, why would they worry about civil liberties as adults?

Also, there is no guarantee the info is kept securely and unhackably. If their fingerprints show up on a document when they are 20, who kknows what might be done with it? Parting with biometric data to make a school library or dinners easier seems mad, tbh.

Unless you are planning a career as a master criminal for your child then I dont see the problem with the fingerprint thing

BAFE:

your (fingerprinted) child and a gang of other (non-fingerprinted) kids from another school burgle a house. they'll get away with it and your kid will be punished because the school will have to hand over the fingerprints to the police if they ask.

• make sure your child doesn't grow up to be a burglar!!

I would have no problem with my children being fingerprinted.

LOL MrsHarkness, I wouldn't put anything past my kids

and yet,. whilst no-one obviously plans a criminal career for their kids, some people do commit crimes and we have no idea at this moment in time whether or not it will be our kids who commit crime.

So surely we should protect them just in case they do?

BAFE - in the unlikely scenerio that your kids actually become criminals, please have some regard for their victims!

If your child is a burglar, I'd rather they were not protected, TYVM.

Getting them accustomed to thinking fingerprinting is normal worries me more. Would you use such a system if they introduced it at work? Or your local council library?

The police would take fingerprints from the scene and would could ask for new prints to eliminate anyone from the inquiry. If there are suspects then they would be arrested and interviewed anyway to gather the fingerprint evidence.

I have used this kind of fingerprinting in a school library a few years ago. The scenario painted above cannot happen - there is absolutley no way of retrieving the actual fingerprint from the database. The system converts the print into a number, and then recognises the print again, but it is impossible for that print to be extracted and handed over to the police (or anybody else). Really, there is nothing to worry about at all.

"make sure your child doesn't grow up to be a burglar!!"

well obviously I'll do everything I can to make sure my kid doesn't grow up to be a criminal. But that doesn't mean he won't, does it. I mean, does anyone really raise their kid to be a criminal?

you'd be surprised!

if they suspected your child, they wouldnt ask the school for the finger prints they would just arrest your child and take them.

i dont think its as easy as just handing over finger prints. the school store them on a computerised system and the police would have to use the same computerised system wouldnt they in order to read them and match up to the prints at the scene of the crime.

and anyway surley if your son had committed a crim you would want him caught and punished for it, if there were other people involved and he refused to tell teh police who they were, than thats his fault or am i missing the point?

BAFE - of course some people raise their kids as criminals - plenty of adult burglars use their skinny young kids to go through really small openings in windows and nick stuff.

I am very uneasy about this. Schools are not equipped to deal with such data, and if they are suitably equipped they must have spent a fortune on it and frankly they should be spending the money elsewhere.

The value of biometric data to the individual is way out of proportion considering what they're using it for.

Of course, generally a fingerprint is a pretty lousy form of ID that you leave on everything you touch and is troublingly easy to fake too.

On the plus side the current government is proving to be better at protecting civil liberties than the previous one, and it looks like they're preventing schools taking fingerprints without parental permission (source).

people train their children in theft, burglary, fraud, sex offences, you name it.

Sorry BAFE but I think your a bit mad

I'm sure your ds wont grow up to be a burgler but if he should he would deserve to be caught so the finger printing at school would have served a good purpose.

I'm not sure it is the school's money though, more like a company that has won a contract to supply and administrate the meals.

Yes I know some people raise their kids to become criminals.

Having said that, some people raise their kids to be fine upstanding citizens, and yet they still commit crimes.

It's just a scenario I'm trying to paint.

I just think they should be protected, even if they are guilty.