to not want my kids to be fingerprinted?

[BAFE]

Next year the secondary school are bringing in a fingerprint systems for school lunches and the school library.

I feel really uneasy about this. Can I refuse?

A fingerprint on its own won't convict anyway in your scenario. If people's fingerprints appear with good reason(because they have legitimately touched an object) then it is not beyond all reasonable doubt that they committed the crime.

Over-reaction because? Sorry it's an over-reaction just to say no? Is one not allowed to say no? we just have to go along with everything we're told or it's an overreaction? Oo er. Good heavens. Interesting perspective.

I can see many good reasons why people are uncomfortable with the use of biometric data, but the "I don't want my kids to get caught if they commit a burglary" is the strangest I've every heard!

it's not a FINGERPRINT though

the scanner takes a reading of points across the finger, measures it, turns it into an algorithm (mathematical equasion) discards the original scan and uses the algorithm to recognise the student

The biometric reading can never be converted back - it is not consistent with law enforcement systems but it can be used to run catering and library services to great effect as students don't tend to lose their fingers

I think you're being overly dramatic

Burglar scenaria definitely a bit weird. Sdeuchs idea of softening them up (although not the purpose) not at all weird: also handing over biometric data to third party -- not odd to raise a question about it. Also v v possible to see this biometric data being linked to say, hmm, school health records, thus evenutally rolling through to the NHS. Or a situation in the future where half a thumbprint turned into a number isn't enough, so let's move it on a stage to a full thumbprint and not a number.

It's not inconceivable at all. I mean, if it was a full thumbprint and not being turned into a number, would you guys object? If it could be retrieved, would you object? If you don't, more fool you: if you do, well it's just a case of where you draw the line rather than a principle.

Agree that people should have the choice and not have any system forced apon them but I believe if you haven't done anything wrong then there is not too much to worry about.

I gave my DNA and fingerprints to my employer because it is crucial to my role. I personally don't object.

I like a bit of bolshiness. Where would we be now if everyone through history had strolled into the pens without objection? Vive NON.

My son will be attending a school from september that has this.

I don't care.

It means he doesn't need to carry money, so great.

And what are the school going to do with it?

I suppose I just don't believe that the police are going to get hold of a fingerprint from a school dinner system and plant it at the scene of a crime so that they can bring about a false conviction of an innocent person.

I wouldn't want to protect my son from being arrested if he burgled someone's house. I would want to give him a smack in the head.

Having said that I am a bit iffy about the fingerprint/school thing as well, can't say why exactly I probably just read too much science fiction.

If the school can match your child's thumb print when he pays for his dinner uniquely to the finger print on the system ,then logically it must follow that a thumb print from a scene of crime could be matched to it.

Katiestar - are you suggesting that the police would (or could) take all the fingerprint evidence they'd gathered around to every single school in the area to check it against their databases? (or maybe check a specific one if they had "information") That's a bit sinister! Most people are saying that you can't go the other way - from the hashed/encrypted version back to the original.

I think systems like the school dinner/library ones work if there's only a few hundred or thousand people on each of them. I don't think they scale to a whole country full of people because you'd probably start to get false positive matches (depending on how big the numbers are that they're storing).

I am not saying they would do it,but I think that it would be possible
False positive matches and 'frame ups' are the big worry.

I'm with the folk who say this is a further erosion of civil liberties
It's using a sledgehammer to crack a nut

Katiestar - Ithink you've been watching too much of the Sweeny and Life on Mars !

Are you for real ?

DD1's primary school uses this for their library. I signed the consent forms but I would have preferred it if they didn't have this system. Am happy to read that the actual fingerprint isn't stored so isn't retrievable.

Am actually speechless at the "my child shouldn't be fingerprinted so that he doesn't get caught if he commits a crime" scenario.

Katie, you haven't: tis the job of people who "go along" with stuff to say everyone else is paranoid. If you don't want to, you don't want to: creation of a crime or decrying of an agitator where there once was none is not to be welcomed.

A thum print for a scene of a crime would initaly be matched to the prints that the policee have already on their database.

If a match came up then that person would have to have another set of prints taken to either eliminate him/her or help convuxt , along with other evidence.

It's not an evasion of rights it's called 'technology '.

I mean, suddenly you are embarrassing, or letting down your children, or have something to hide blah blah blah.

Er no. Just .. no thanks. Move along please.

Perhaps the OP could buy her little darling a pair of gloves if he shows signs of becoming a burglar - problem solves

or solved even (hic)

ooh -- or one is over-precious about one's children (thanks River)

all sorts of accusations can now be thrown at the non-co-operator

that's progress I guess

still, I like non-cooperators -- so much good has come from individuals standing up for what they believe in

i suppose this is a very small thing but still

It has just been introduced at dd'ssecondary and ds's soon to be secondary.
Don't have a problem with it- saves them taking cash to school and being robbed.
Think BAFE is over thinking.
If my child was involved in crime I wouldn;t protect him.

I would opt out. I subscribe to the "sledgehammer to crack a nut" school of thought.

Of course the burglar deserves to be caught, but not any more than his fingerprintless accomplices, which was the point of that post, I think.

The "if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear" really is no reason to give up civil liberties. Not even for a trivial thing like borrowing a library book.

Surely library cards are a much simpler way of managing things. OK, so kids can't forget their fingers but library cards don't require expensive IT support. And a laminator (or whatever) wouldn't cost as much as the kit to run a system like this.

Plus, jeez, children should be able to remember their library cards. For Pete's sake. Talk about mollycoddling.

parents can pay for cards to be loaded for lunch remotely, so that takes away the cash element as well. I would be unhappy with this, as I have no faith in anyone's ability to keep data safe.