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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want my kids to be fingerprinted?

113 replies

BAFE · 07/07/2010 18:27

Next year the secondary school are bringing in a fingerprint systems for school lunches and the school library.

I feel really uneasy about this. Can I refuse?

OP posts:
dolphin13 · 07/07/2010 18:50

And are you saying if he did burgle someone you would want to cover for him.

I'd march mine to the nearest police station before they could blink.

MmeRedWhiteandBlueberry · 07/07/2010 18:52

My understanding of these school fingerprint systems is that the info is encrypted and stored in a stand-alone database.

There is no way to transfer the information to the police.

roisin · 07/07/2010 18:53

These systems don't use full finger prints, just a more limited scan of main features and usually just one digit. Thumb scanners are the norm.

The boys had this in the junior library at school. I had no problems with it. It meant the kids were excited about borrowing books, and there was no issue with them losing their library cards, or forgeting their username or password or something.

At secondary there is always a queue outside student services for pupils who have lost their free-school-meals pass, or have lost/forgotten their dinner money. A cashless system, which they only needed their thumb to operate would be fantastic IMO.

eclectech · 07/07/2010 18:55

scurryfunge Pfft. In that case maybe they should be spending their money on the food? And handing over biometric data to a commercial third party is worse, IMO.

BuzzingNoise · 07/07/2010 18:55

Surely if your child burgles a house he deserves to be caught!

eclectech · 07/07/2010 18:58

Fingerprints aren't taken at schools to solve crimes, but to borrow books or get a meal. It's a solution totally out of proportion to the problem it supposedly solves.

LifeOfKate · 07/07/2010 18:58

My DH works in a school and says a cashless system is also good for helping stop some bullying, in the sense of there is no dinner money to be pinched, IYSWIM.

I'm still chuckling at BAFE refusing on the grounds of protecting her DS from the police if he was ever in the unfortunate position of having burgled a house

MumInBeds · 07/07/2010 19:00

I'm not sure how I feel about fingerprinting for school meals but if (heaven forbid) my child became a criminal then I'd want them caught as fast as possible so they would have the best chance of being rehabilitated.

PortiaNovmerriment · 07/07/2010 19:01

I haven't got any fingerprints on my thumbs because I chewed them off.

umf · 07/07/2010 19:02

I'm with SDeuchars on this. No need for biometric data. Not a good idea to get used to handing it over for trivial purposes.

eclectech · 07/07/2010 19:03

LifeOfKate I've no problem with a cashless system, but there are many less intrusive alternatives to fingerprinting.

Anyhow, this is one of those topics which makes me rant, and I end up like this so I shall go and do something more useful.

agalchchangedhername · 07/07/2010 19:04

If my children grow up to commit a crime i would want them to be caught/stopped.

Certainly wouldn't want them to get away with it and also wouldn't be 'protecting them'

YummyMam · 07/07/2010 19:05

Ok - let's try again. Admittedly, I only have experience of the library system, but as far as I know the ones used for the lunch systems work in the same way.

THERE IS NO WAY TO EXTRACT THE ACTUAL FINGERPRINT FROM THE DATABASE. They do not store the fingerprint as such.

It is also not that expensive. The fingerprint scanner is only a couple of hundred pounds extra on top of the libary management system (one-off), and can save a lot of money on producing library cards (which easily get lost and have to be replaced again and again), not to mention books that have to be written off because pupils claim to have never taken them out (you can't steal someone's fingerprint).

I am hoping to introduce this system int he library I work in at the moment - I'm just waiting for the government to decide for sure what their position is. It makes borrowing books fun, and will save the pupils money, as at the moment we charge them for replacement cards - no ulterior motives, and it is ridiculous to suggest that there might be!

RealEyesRealiseRealLies · 07/07/2010 19:11

This reply has been deleted

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eclectech · 07/07/2010 19:53

YummyMam. You CAN steal someone's fingerprint. NO2ID got the Home Secretary's.

Others have shown how that can be turned into a fake finger capable of fooling scanners.

OK. And I really am stepping away now. Fundamentally you either think this is out of proportion and an invasion of civil liberties, or you don't. Fortunately at least the current government says you get to refuse, which is what the OP asked.

backtotalkaboutthis · 07/07/2010 19:58

Yanbu -- am with Sdeuchars. I would opt out, and I think most of the rest of you are rather complacent sweetly over-trusting.

YummyMam · 07/07/2010 20:00

But that story is not about retrieving a fingerprint from one of the systems being talked about here. Also - I don't think that pupils in a secondary school are going to be going around cloning fingerprints and creating fake fingers in order to take out a book or buy some lunch, whereas they will happily use someone else's card.
I honestly do not see how these systems are an infringement of civil liberities (and we are not talking about identity cards). They are just an easy, secure way of dealing with huge numbers of pupils wanting to do something. As long as the fingerprint cannot be retrieved from the system and used for any other purpose, what exactly is the problem?

MuthaHubbard · 07/07/2010 20:00

but then if he does grow up to be a burglar, or commit any crime, surely you would want him to suffer the consequences for his actions?

callalilies · 07/07/2010 20:04

What sinister purpose do people think the fingerprints might be used for?

Am rofl at BAFE's desire to protect her hypothetically larcenous offspring from the long arm of the law.

oldspeckledtam · 07/07/2010 20:08

I'm with Yummymam.

We use a cashless fingerprint system at work. We were shownhow the scanner takes a partial picture and converts it into something or other that is then recognised by fingerprint. The actual fingerprint isn't stored, can't be handad over to anyone and isn't a full print anyway!

There is nothing to worry about and I think some of you are rather overreacting sweetly over-worried.

scurryfunge · 07/07/2010 20:08

Not complacent just realistic...I do not believe "the authorities" secretly scrape our DNA from the drains at every opportunity.

Rosieeo · 07/07/2010 20:10

I am just LMAO at the idea that someone may 'lift' a copy of a child's fingerprint to use it in the library/dining room.

We use this system. As many have already said, you can't do anything with the info.

The best thing about it? Children can't forget their fingers, even if they forget everything else. Makes things a lot easier!

Of course, you can refuse if you like. A couple of kids at our place did; I felt really sorry for them. They were embarrassed, didn't really understand what was going on and their friends took the mick. Their parents expected the school to set up a separate system just for them

RiaHere · 07/07/2010 20:11

Sorry to OP but, ARRRRRGH, I must respond to BAFE... HELLO??? have you ever been the victim of crime? Know anyone who has?

You say: "Having said that, some people raise their kids to be fine upstanding citizens, and yet they still commit crimes.

It's just a scenario I'm trying to paint.

I just think they should be protected, even if they are guilty."

Who's "they"? Guilty of... what? Everyone is someones DS / DD so can you suggest where the line should be drawn? Bombers from 07.07.05? Raoul Moat? Rapists? Paedophiles? MP's? George Michael? Or is it the penal reform system, solely regarding your DCs? Oh, sweet Mary - I'm on me soapbox

LouAnnVanHouten · 07/07/2010 20:15

A better hypothetical situation might be a child touches something which innocently ends up at a crime scene. The child's fingerprint is the only one found that is on any database and he is arrested. He knows nothing and can't cut a deal by grassing.

I saw a man once who was arrested and held for ages based on his fingerprint being on a letter he had written and put in a bost box which was subsequently burgled. His was the only fingerprint on record so he was arrested.

If the school can't retrieve the fingerprint (rather than won't) then I would be reassured.

Sassybeast · 07/07/2010 20:15

YABU OP - both in thinking that the dinner ladies are involved in yet another government conspiracy/stealing IDs/infringement of civil liberties but more so for suggesting that criminals should be protected.