unsuitable friendship

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real problem at the minute, my 8yr old dd1 has become friends with a girl in her year who i really rather she was not. the family(including the mother) is involved with police, ss etc and is known for being trouble. she wanted to invite girl back to our house, said no as do not want the family round here. so she asked if she could go round to hers to which my reply was no as am not sure about her safety if she did. have tried to explain without with going into details. am now trying to encourage other friendships, has any one else been in this situation and how have they handled it

unless your seen handing over cash for discreet packages!!!

even if you are police or ss or anything like that, i would imagine it's worse for them to be seen with you than vice versa.

Do you think she will push your child to shoplift?

To be honest, many children from many backgrounds will come across 'bad' influences and part of growing up is them working out how to deal with them and carve out their own furrow.

For what it's worth, I'm from a middle class, though liberal (bohemian), backgroud and shoplifted briefly in my teens. And have, erm, Done Far Worse.

I, too, knew more about porn (parents friends worked in the industry) than a 10 year old should have done. I have on one or two occasions rolled up my father's funny cigarettes.

I don't think you are being unreasonable to worry -- 8 is young and I'd be worried too. But I don't think you can realistically veto it. Better to have some agreement where they can be in your house, safe, and you can observe from there.

I'm interested to know how this can affect your job?

"liberal clap-trap"? I would say that some of you are indulging in playground fascism, which IMO is far worse a crime than "liberal clap-trap".

I was that girl once. No-one came to my party. I wasn't invited to theirs. Not because of me, but because of my family. I now have a degree, a professional career and a pretty squeaky-clean lifestyle, not to mention lots of friends and a thoroughly middle-class family.

I think you are being unreasonable, cruel and unnecessarily over-protective. Fair enough that you don't want your daughter at her house, but surely you can see that this lonely little girl could do with some positive influences? Not from you though it would seem. Shame on you.

TBH I feel so sorry for the girl, if everyone does this what hope is there for her

in parallel, I suspect I'd feel the same

what is the little girl like?

agree with beertricks a park play cant do any harm? try and be kind and in parallel have clear boundaries

i can imagine though ........

loopyloops, I come from an alcoholic home and was rarely invited to others' homes as I never invited anyone to ours. I had one party..

BUT

in small communities, there are sometimes families who are known to be violent, dangerous and volatile. Despite my own experience I would not be encouraging friendships with children from these families while my children were young enough for me to have a say so.

I don't think there's anything wrong with not wanting your child to go into the home of an addict or criminal. Practically speaking, if you don't want your child to go to their home it's hard to invite the child to yours. If you invite that child home snd meet with their parents as they pick up who invite your child home in return, how do you decline without causing serious offence? What happens if you offend them?

I suspect that many of you who are outraged do not live in communities where your children regularly come into contact with families who are drug addicts and/or known criminals. It's terribly easy to be liberal about these things when you don't come into contact with these situations. I would be petrified if my child befriended the particular family I mentioned earlier: I do not under any circumstances want a man who lives in a family where ALL the men have been in prison for repeated random violent attacks on strangers crossing my threshold. If that makes me a playground fascist, so be it. I'm really just scared for my family's safety.

arses, - you have said everthing i wanted to, only better!

OP wasnt saying the girl could not play with her daughter at school but it is her home and she can invite or decline to invite whoever she chooses. it is not her 8yos decision to make.

the OP is doing nothing wrong .

my younger brother is seven and has a friend from a slightly unsuitable family and my parents have always absolutley refused to invite him round for dinner. parties were ok, but the child had absolutley no idea how to function in a social situation because of the way he's been taught to behave. punching the little girls in the face was a common feature.
my brother has since decided that this boy is no real friend and has now got a group of lovely well behaved boys and girls to play with.

it may seem judgemental, but you try so hard to instil values on your child when another's lax parenting can undermine all your hard work.

stick to your ground OP. they can socialise, but you are under no obligation to encourage the friendship and it may fizzle out anyway.

it is your prerogative as a mother to decide what is best for your daughter.

The OP was saying that if the girl hasn't stopped playing with her dd when they return in September that she was going to pull her from that school, after requesting that the school intercept this friendship, and send her elsewhere.

I agree that she doesn't need to socialise outside of school with this girl, but to want to get the school involved with whether the friendship happens or not, is a off in my opinion.

Wow im astounded by some of your comments. how are you going to teach your child that in life there are some people who arn't perfect.

You cannot protect your child for ever and i am not saying let your daughter go around to this house but open your home up to this child.

Its not her doing, she at eight didnt choose her parents. what can your child offer this young girl, love compassion and insight in what a normal home is like?

Trust in what you have taught your daughter and together talk about things that come up.

By telling your daughter that she cant play with her due to adult reasons is putting your insecurities on your daughter. She just wants some one to play with.

I don't know how you intend to get the school to put a stop to the friendship?? You say separate them? They wouldn't do that......... Unless you're royalty??

OP doesn't want to have to invite drug addicts/criminals into her home (when picking up their child) and/or have her child go to the house of drug addicts/criminals.

That = "ivory towers"

Does anyone here live in the real world?

Let's be serious here. What if the little girl were Shannon Matthew's family - at that level of dysfunction - but perhaps with some unspent criminal convictions, too? What if the parents were, oh, you know, gang members or known drug barons? Is there a particular point where you might feel that, no, on balance you would rather keep your child safe than show 'compassion' to some unknown child?

Each and every one of you here who has made a jibe at the OP can say you would have no concerns whatsoever about putting your LO in a situation where she would be invited to this child's home and/or that you would be happy to look the offending parents in the face on your doorstep and say: 'you know, it's okay for your daughter to play at mine but I really don't want you to come into my house or have my daughter stay at yours thanks - you understand, right?'. What if these parents - like those in my hometown - had previously responded to such statements by perpetrating violent acts on other hapless mums and dads who had shown compassion before you (while drawing a line at allowing their daughter to go to the criminal home).

I don't believe it. For a second. The vast majority of us are scared shitless by random violence, drug addiction and crime - and thank the Lord we are so lucky to be able to steer clear of it.

The OP's daughter can learn compassion and charity and friendship skills without potentially being put at risk. Of course, no one here will accept there could be risk involved in this friendship. How backward of anyone to suggest it. I suppose you will all be sending your kids to Dewsbury to hang out with the Matthews kids to learn a bit of charidee then?

Arses there are two very different points that the op has made

1. Socialising out of school - no I probably wouldn't have them over to play, as much as I wouldn't have the child over, who swears like a trooper, or the one who hits when they don't have their own way.

2. Friends at school - that's where you have to let go, and hope that your child does no right from wrong, you can't change schools every time your child makes friends with someone you don't like.

when a child goes elsewhere for tea/play etc do you all worry??

i would.....i used to limit this when was with my exh. he used to shout/fly off the handle for slightest thing.....nasty comments aimed at anyone....swear prolifically....dv involved.....and leave PORN lying around

if i hadnt been so vigilant then this would all have been witnessed by the child of a normal family....we looked a normal enough family on the outside,but my ex was a monster. i left him eventually,dd says she was sooo embarassed by him

YABU. I can see why you don't want you DD to play round at this girls house, But why can't she play at your house it isn't her fault that her family are like that.

I don't have an issue with the 'mixing' at all and would stay out of this if I were the OP: what I am saying is that, on a practical level, I don't know that I would be comfortable putting myself in a position where I would have to have a conversation with a "Shannon Matthews' Mum" type of person where I tried to convince her that it was okay for me to keep my child away from hers because, well, you know..

Encouraging your child to form a relationship with someone that you are not going to allow as an equal friend (e.g. you will readily let your LO go to Targuin's for tea but will not allow your LO go to Shannon's despite her pleas) is also problematic in terms of managing the situation and in the message you are sending. It seems like you are advocating a 'charitable concession' instead of being plain and transparent about your concerns.

For me, these concerns would relate to my child being in the house or the child's family potentially having an issue with either my child or me and, well, knowing where I live. As we should know from MN, parents frequently take issue with one another over minor issues.. however, a bit of shunning at the school gates is one thing, being glassed in the face by an angry thug of a parent is another.

For me, this a genuine fear based on incidents that have occurred in real communities in which I really, really live. "Wide spectrum of society" does include violent thugs. If Mr Murderer's son down the road is a fine, upstanding young man - good for him! But I do not want to even enter the fringe of the circle of Mr. Murderer so, well, his son will have to look elsewhere. It's not a class thing as people seem to be making out, it's a fear of violence-and-chaos thing. Having grown up in a house like ILoveTiffany's, I have had glimpses of both but thankfully not of the kind that gets the entire family sent down for GBH etc. There is NO WAY I want my child to be put in a position where they are encountering people who are violent criminals. Irrespective of how fantastic the child is.

In the teenage years, it is different. We are talking about kids, so there is an expectation that the families will have to at least make chit-chat in the course of the children's friendship. Again, I don't want to have to make chit-cat with violent criminals or even enter their radar.

We live on an ex-council estate that is part-council, part-private and I have NO issue with my child forming friendships with any child because of their economic background. I draw a line at violent criminality. I don't want anything to do with it, I don't want to invite that trouble into my life.. I really don't equate wanting to avoid that with living in an Ivory Tower.

YANBU op. I can totally understand where you're coming from.

I doubt the OP is worried about her DD turning into a criminal because of this friendship. Far more likely - and correct me if I'm wrong OP - she is worried about what interactions with the girls parents may lead to for her own family.

E.g. girls Mum needs money to pay drug dealer, goes round to sponge money off her DDs friends family. Might sound unlikely, but believe me it's not.

How many of you would SERIOUSLY be willing to let drug addicts into your lives? I certainly wouldn't be queuing up!

Op you are completely just, I agree that many people on here have no idea just what living in a village with families like this means.... I have seen it and luckily have never suffered but several of my friends at school were assaulted by older siblings of girls like OP's DD's friend, after she had gone home and said something about them falling out at school- nothing major just not choosing her first for a team or not helping her with work.... Its sas for the girl but your own Childs safety has to be more important than anything nhelse surely?

Surely it is entirely possible to have the child to your house, not allow yours the opportunity to go to theirs, without offending?

I know this sounds trite, but if you are so scared of the children at DC's school, perhaps private school (or a nicer area) is a better option?

I just feel so sad for the child who just wants some normal friends and through no fault of her own is deprived of this, therefore ensuring she remains in the same social structure for the rest of her life.

The example of Shannon Matthews is a good one. Would you have stopped such a desperately needy child from accessing a little normality and comfort from your home? A little girl with so many horrible people in her life who is crying out for some stability and boundaries?

The whole "it takes a village to raise a child" analogy has gone out of the window. No-one cares about anything but themselves and their immediate family and this is really sad.

I hope to heaven that this never happens but what if something happens to this~ little girl, and you know you could have helped in some small way? How would you feel?

but loopyloops, what if/when the other family take offense that the OP's DD doesn't want to come to their place?

people who take drugs often don't behave reasonably - it's not unlikely they'll pay OP (or worse, her DD) a visit and show them what they think about it.

It is unlikely. Stranger things have happened I'm sure, but assuming that it will happen is frankly ridiculous.
I'm starting to worry a little about how anxious people really are about other people. I now understand how the Daily Mail sells papers.