To think that suncream is just as bad for you as the sun?

[poshsinglemum]

Look at all the chemicals. Shade is the way forard. I will still be using my suncream before you all get judgy.

300 years ago people worked in the fields and didn't have access to factor 15 etc. I think the sun is vital and good for you, I don't believe in cream, but believe in staying out of the midday sun. I have a fear that some of the chemicals absorbed into the body may cause cancer.

I'm very pale (as is one of my kids) so 'wrong' rays are exactly what I'm concerned about. I'm far more worried about melanoma than a wrinkle or two.

but claig- see the link above - in terms of melanoma risk the midday sun is less dangerous that the morning or evening sun.

saintlydamemrsturnip, I don't believe the reports of these scientists. I believe in folk knowledge, only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun. In mediterranean countries people stay out of the midday sun and also have siestas.

You still burn the same in the shade

What I would like to know is how many cases of skin cancer in later life have been caused by people being sunburned as children in Britain.
As opposed to in the Med. or somewhere else that's nearer the equator.

I'm all for folk knowledge but melanoma would have been less of a risk in ye olden days because of clothing and no package holidays

I am interested if something that people think is protective (using sunscreen/staying out of the midday sun) actually has the opposite effect - for melanoma at least. That pediatrics article suggests that potentially it might have.

This is from cancer research:

"Whether to use suncream or sunblock is becoming a subject of more and more debate. Some doctors and researchers think that sun creams could be harmful because they encourage people to stay out in the sunshine for longer. They think that the protection the creams give you against burning may not actually stop people increasing their risk of melanoma. The only way to be absolutely sure of reducing melanoma risk is to avoid over exposing your skin to the sun. If you must get a tan, do it gradually so that you minimise the damage to your skin."

Personally I'm going to think more about clothing rather than sunscreen and remind myself to think about it in the morning and late afternoon as well.

furball, in the shade ?

it's this bit that interests me (the same idea as expressed in the pediatrics article)

"They think that the protection the creams give you against burning may not actually stop people increasing their risk of melanoma."

Because lets face it that's how they are marketed and if my family is going to get better protection from clothing then I'd prefer to spend my money in that way than on some expensive cream that actually isn't protecting against melanoma.

saintlydame - clothng wise (we do the same as you, similar concerns re suncream) last year I got the girls tops and trousers from Spotty Otter (sorry, on phone so no links)

UV cloth, apparently. did the trick for 3 weeks on the beach in Brisbane. that and boden kaftan type tops as well

legionnaires style hats, alos UV, and UV suits for swimming.

so far, neither girl ahs ever burnt on this regime. wedo have sunscreen (Badger mineral) as back up, but have never put it on them as far as I can remember

Thanks silver- I have been a bit slow on the uptake re. sunscreen and only found out about the controversy because I was following up vitamin D/autism ideas.

I am going to shop for more protective clothing. DS3 - mr autistic in every biomedical way but not actually autistic - can't tolerate the stuff anyway so I have cut right down and started to look at alternatives. Not sure what we'll do about school.

but in the olden days the majority of people worked on the land, not in offices. I'm sure most of the men worked bareback. I just have a feeling that nature would not have made normal levels of sunshine dangerous to humans. There is a huge industry that markets products for this, but some of the chemicals in these products can be harmful.

ys, school is a worry.

dd1 is at SN school, and they are happy ot go along with my regime. also happy to put her in a long sleeve top if out all day, but I have had ot compromise and le tthem have suncream too (used maybe twice a week - eg fo rhorseriding)

what we'll do when dd2 goes to school, I am not sure. cross that bridge wehn we come to it. she is, like your ds3, mis ASD profile, dodgy gut, the lot

claig
One of the differences in the olden times is that people worked outside through out the season so melanin levels could build up through the spring so you had a higher degree of natural protection by the height of the summer.

Unfortunately that doesn't work for pasty celtic office workers like me who stay in doors for most of the year then head to somewhere hot for 2 weeks in the summer! That's why I need sunscreen.

good point, the gradual buildup was normal in those days. Going abroad and sunbathing all day long, with ni buildup at all, does pose greater risks. I'm just not sure that suncream is all it is cracked up to be by the industry.

shade is all very well if you own a portable tree.

I cream on very sunny days, when they are going to be at school and I cannot monitor their sun exposure. If they do not wear sun hats, they do not go in the garden. It is hard though, with 2 pale gingers but they haven't burnt yet.

saintly - is school likely to be amenable to ds3 wearing a differetn top for palytime etc?

I think that might be the route O go down with dd2 - explain th reactions, dd2 cannot have most high street "last 6 hours" brands anyway due to wheat/milk #products (she is gf/cf due to dodgy gut), and I think I will try my best to find similar coloured loose cotton top and ask if she can wear that instead.

In the olden days the sun's rays were less damaging as the atmosphere was undamaged and less of the dangerous rays penetrated to the earth's surface.

When i was a child it was relatively uncommon to burn in the sun, even abroad in hot countries. Factor 50 didn't exist... if we were on holiday my mother put factor 2 or 4 on me in the morning and that was it for the day and i went brown as a berry and never burned. These days i've managed to get burned in the north west of Ireland at 10am hanging my washing on the line in my garden

All that being said i hate suncreams. ds1 burns very easily so we have to use them on him and he freaks out if i try and rub the mineral ones on him (too hot and too sticky apparently) so i have a selection of every strength i can find and only go up to higher strengths for him on scorching hot days if he's insisting on being out. Luckily he overheats quickly so rarely wants to go out on hot days.

dd and ds2 have my easily tanning skin so get sun cream early in the year when they're pasty after winter but once they have some colour i rarely use cream on them... they've never burned, or even gone red for that matter, and they live outside in summer.

Can anyone recommend a good organic or nasties-free sunscreen to use every day under makeup?

oblomov yes in the shade!

The shade might block the brightness but its not blocking the UV rays. The rays bounce of things like the ground, walls etc it doesn't have to be direct.

I found this out the hardway and have been burned to a crisp - literally.

claig- I am as suspicious as you - but that was my point, that if you look closely at the evidence then using sunscreen might actually be more damaging in terms of melanoma and yet we're all told to slap it on. I am definitely going to move over the clothing.

I'm sure the safest way is as chaz says a gradual build up - preferably not under an ozone hole!

I'm not sure silver- school have suggested that ds3 is allergic to sunscreen before, so they may be amenable to suggestions. DS1's SLD school will do what we want. He is so brown though (probably partly because he does spend so much of the year out of doors - his school always have him outside) that I don't worry so much about him. He has the natural build up of ye olden days. The one annoying thing is that it is very difficult to get a hat on him. I might investigate various hats and try to find one he will keep on and then reduce the sunscreen further.

silver- at some stage (not now because I have to work) we will have to swap info on the ASD biomed profile but not ASD siblings.

What evidence is there that using sunscreen is more damaging than not?

read the links above- that it doesn't reduce melanoma causing rays as much as other rays & therefore gives a false sense of security. So you stay out in the sun longer than you otherwise would, but have the same exposure to melanoma reducing rays as you would have without sunscreen. Maybe no the same - but you haven't reduced that exposure as much as you think you have.