To think that suncream is just as bad for you as the sun?

[poshsinglemum]

Look at all the chemicals. Shade is the way forard. I will still be using my suncream before you all get judgy.

Flight - actually the thing I read said that people did use sun cream (I did growing up in the 70's) buy the type used then cut vitamin D producing rays so increasing the risk of melanoma.

I have no idea whether this is true or not and I certainly won't be sending my kids out to fry (or me - although I burn so am careful anyway - derm I saw about a dodgy mole said she my skin had very little sun damage - she could see I'd been careful). However I am interested in alternatives to sun cream - eg clothing. Little ds3 turns into a horribly itchy mess with sun cream. At home I avoid it and take other precautions but it would be good to find an alternative for him to have at school.

riven - that's very interesting in light of all those who say the chemicals won't be absorbed! As for "nano" technology... I'm a firm believer in chemicals in cosmetics being evil, evil, evil stuff - Burt's Bees is the way forward.

I'm afraid I'm rather with the common-sense, shade & Vit D brigade.

There are kids in the UK with ricketts ffs!

Really jazzi? Gosh. I'll follow thst up. There must be a middle way musn't there.

I keep meaning to read up on vitamin D especially as severely autistic ds1 was born in May. Being born in may increases your risk of MS (true in our family funnily enough - we fit the pattern) and they now think that's because if you're born in may your mother has limited sun exposure during pregnancy and so you get less vitamin D.

The reemergence of rickets has absolutely nothing to do with sunscreen use, and this misconception has had serious consequences for sun protection in Australia.

If you look at the scientific papers, rickets is more to do with women who don't go out a lot, especially those who cover all their skin when out (just 10 minutes exposure to your hands and face is enough unless you are very northerly) who then give birth to children who are born vit D deficient. And then other factors come in

It's amazing all those people living in sunny countries haven't disappeared from the face of the earth yet.

MrsMellowdrummer Just in case you have one near you, Waitrose sell the Green People Suncream

Hmmmm I have always been a bit in two minds about how bad cosmetics etc are for you. Personally I don't use much in the way of beauty products and only use sunscreen when I need to. I will always try and get some sun time with no cream on (10 mins outside watering garden dotted throughout a sunny day) and I don't use lotions and potions all over my skin.

www.skinbiology.com/toxicsunscreens.html

This is interesting, I suppose time will tell if they are right or wrong. I think people do need to be more aware of what they are putting in and on their bodies.

If anyone is interested about what "nasties" are put in cosmetics, this is a nice start www.amazon.com/Not-Just-Pretty-Face-Industry/dp/0865715742

Thankfully, here in the EU we have far, far stricter guidelines about what can be put in to stuff we smear over our skin. There is evidence to suggest for example, that there is crap in nail polish which leads to genetic abnormalities in unborn babies.

I know that I can't protect my baby from car exhaust fumes or "everything" - but I'll be damned if I'm going to rub parabens in to his arse!

Sorry, "genetic abnormalities" should have read "genital abnormalities".

Well, my nan died aged 58 from a melanoma (she was a sun goddess and would be out in it all day, every day in the summer with no sunscreen).

I will take my chances with the sunscreen.

Surely most high street brands have been tested and tested and tested to ensure they are safe for skin???????
Surely getting burnt , especially on young children is far worse???
We are going somewhere hot in July and i am certainly going to cover DS in high factor. I cant bear to see him sunburnt !!

this is really interesting- especially what they say about midday sun being LESS likely to cause melanoma and basal cell carcinoma than sun exposure at other times.

It's from a proper journal.

Ah this: It is important to note that malignant melanoma and basal cell carcinoma of the skin are more likely to occur after excessive UV-A rather than UV-B exposure.Therefore, in contrast to common belief, exposure to the midday sun is less likely to cause these skin cancers than similar exposure to the sun early or late in the day. Conversely, actinic keratosis and squamous cell carcinoma are related to lifetime exposure to UV-B. Sunscreens have greater protection against UV-B than UV-A and, thus, protect against the latter skin conditions more so than the former.

is exactly what the article I read the other day was saying. Nice to see it somewhere conventional.

So sunscreen provides less protection against melanoma than cancers that don't usually kill you.

The article I read went onto say that vitamin D itself provides good protection from cancer. So they were saying you reduce vitamin D from using sunscreen but don't necessarily reduce your risk of melanoma all that much as the sunscreen is blocking the wrong rays.

As I said I don't really want to fry my children but maybe there are alternative ways of reducing exposure that reduce the overall UV-A & UV-B received but allow plenty of vitamin D.

It also says that we need 4-10 minutes a day between 10 and 3, to get enough vitamin D.

It goes on to say that MORE sun exposure than this does not increase levels of vitamin D. It just gets converted into other inert products.

So do your 4-10 minutes (60-80 minutes for darker skin) and then cover up.

Personally I just try to find a balance, if they are just nipping in and out of the garden, it's just a hat and a tee shirt to protect neck and shoulders and even in the weather we have had recently they haven't burnt.

If we were spending all day in the beach then they both have rash suits and would wear sun hats.

If we were outside all day but not on a beach they I would use sun cream on their exposed bits.

I don't really like sun cream for the chemicals (I know I could buy without, but I use it quite rarely) and for the blocking of vitamin D. But I do think there are occasions when it is useful as I would never want my child to burn.

and maybe using sunscreen is giving a false sense of security as it's blocking the 'wrong' rays.

I find that quite scarey tbh. I am fare more concerned about getting melanoma that squamous cell carcinoma.

I did read up a bit on the "nasties" in conventional sun creams. The problem with them in my opinion is not that they're "chemicals" but that they are hormonally active. (Btw I think some of them are very similar to the BPA we used to have in plastic bottles and that many people now would never knowingly expose their babies to.) Most of them are so-called anti-androgens, meaning that they inhibit the function of androgen (male) hormones such as testosterone. If you are pregnant with a boy and get lots of these anti-androgens in your blood, it could very well stop your baby's genitals from developing properly.
Similarly if you slather your baby boy with these products.
It has been shown that women who used conventional suncream within the last few months have higher levels of anti-androgens in their breast milk. It hasn't yet been conclusively shown that this actually harms breast-fed babies (boys) though. Still, many countries do recommend pregnant and breastfeeding women not to use such products, nor use them on small babies.

So, overall, I do think that there are reasons to be wary of conventional suncreams. And yet, I also agree with everyone who says that getting burned is worse. The practical alternative for me is to use mineral-based suncreams that don't contain hormonally active substances, and to be sensible about sun exposure (hats, long sleeves, not staying in the sun for long stretches).

As far as I know there are no recorded cases of anyone dying of sunscreen poisoning.... plenty of people dying from skin cancer caused by over-exposure to the sun, though. No contest.

Clothing - these tops are SPF50+

I got one for DS and it's really comfy, lightweight and obviously does the trick too. Wish they came in my size!

chil- did you read the bit in the article above about sunscreen stopping the 'wrong' rays.

Thanks Betty. Am going to be shopping

"chil- did you read the bit in the article above about sunscreen stopping the 'wrong' rays"

Sunscreen is only a back-stop. Cover up + wear a hat + seek out the shade + wear sunscreen ... sensible. Sit baking in the full-on sun for hours on end expecting sunscreen to magically protect you from all evils and I think that's always been unrealistic.

Use factor 15 or less. It gives you quite a long time in the sun and is quite easy to make with far fewer chemicals than 16+ suncream.

But if you are covered up, wearing a hat, and sat in the shade why on earth would you need sunscreen as well? Serious question.

I didn't necessarily mean all at the same time but a combination of what you've got available. Sometimes there is no shade or you don't always have a hat or a flowing robe handy and then you need to slap suncream on an exposed bit of flesh. Go out in the summer in a T-shirt, hat and shorts and, even if you don't sit out in it, it's still a good idea to dab sunscreen on your nose and cheeks if you don't want them to turn unattractively red and peel :-) Not all that bothered about 'wrong rays' to be honest... wrinkles and burning, yes.