To wonder how the bloody hell people afford private education for their kids?

[HarderToKidnap]

Thinking about TTC and getting WAY ahead of myself I idly googled the local private schools. Bloody hell!! HOW do people afford this? My DH and I earn 100k between us every year so certainly not poor, but with a mortgage (on a two bed terrace) and other, what I consider to be reasonable, outgoings there is just not a way it could be done. So all these children being privately educated, do their parents earn masses and masses? Or am I missing a trick?

(Incidentally I wouldn't send my kid to private school - comprehensive was brilliant for me and if a child is going to do well they will do well, I believe. Was just wondering.)

What's the difference between bursaries and scholarships?

I have to say the idea of a state school where there is a 'more or less mandatory' VC and selection on the basis of religion affiliation makes me feel very uncomfortable indeed.

I pay for schooling for DSs at a nominally CofE school but the state does not put any money in at all and no one is excluded or selected on religious or any indeed other grounds except severe learning difficulty or poor behaviour.

I think the "if you can pay for 2 under 5s in nursery you can afford private school" is a bit of a red herring.

We afforded childcare for 2 by building up savings before we had children and cutting all expenditure down to the bone (if something broke, we didn't fix it). This is not sustainable for 18 years (taking university into account as well). Many parents I know do similar and breathe a sigh of relief once their children get to school age.

I see a lot of different views on this thread re private education and who can afford it. Who are these people and are they multi millionaires??I would like to be my tuppence in...

We have two children both at private schools. I had my children late (36 and 41), we decided that I would go back to work full time to enable us to afford the school costs. This was our choice! It is how we are able to afford the fees... If you want to be a SAHM that's fine but some choices will be taken away from you (unless you are married to a millionaire).

Pixie, I think you are an exception. The average school fees around here are £14k for day and £30k for boarding (South East and London. It might be that you are in another part of the country where the fees are less, or that you partner earns lots of money. Having five at private school around here assuming that they are all day pupils will cost in excess of £70k per year. Alternatively I have found (sadly not in our case!!) that many many grandparents are paying the school fees so again give you choices.

You have to make huge sacrifices and sometimes hope that the grandparents are willing to help. You also need to think about whether there is any benefit to be gained from it. For example, would there be a benefit to sending them to private juniors so they can get into a grammar school afterwards? Is it worthwhile sending them just for sixth form where they might have a better selection of subjects? Would it be better to send them to a private secondary school to 16 and see if they wanted to go to sixth form college afterwards? It depends on the area, how much you want to sacrifice and what your motivation is.

We still have the 11+ in our county but I worry about the pressure put on children here to pass the exam. The children's friends at five and six were talking about going to the local grammar school.

My DH would liked to have had another child but I felt two was enough. We would have struggled financially to pay for three and so chose to stop at two.

I agree one of the choices might be to choose private education at secondary level (very popular choice). It seems the vast majority of parents around here pay for a private tutor to get their children through the 11+. They dont always reveal what they have done but even in the children's private school there are parents furiously pay for extra tutition in secret..

Would anyone be really disappointed if they'd sacrifised much of their 'life' to give their children what they perceived to be a better education, only for their child/children not to do as well as expected? I went to a private school and did well educationally but fell in to nursing which I suppose I could have climbed to dizzy heights in but went part-time to look after the children and offset childcare costs. I do sometimes wonder if my parents think of the money they could've saved and wonder,'was it worth it?' This would probably put my parents off funding my children...history repeating itself maybe. I went to a boarding school and as a legacy, feel the need to be with my children lots and so working full-time would not suit me. My eldest has just finished his GCSEs at a local comp...A for maths so far. Maybe he could've had a scholarship but he seems to have done ok. My next child goes to an all girls secondary and is doing well. The next will be following in her footsteps soon but does have issues with dyscaculia and I would have loved to offer her more. Our smallest will be off to school soon so we'll just have to see what pans out.

We earn about £150K but with 4 DCS hae not considered private education for any of them.
DD1 at university now and we pay her rent which is about £3.5k a yr,that feels bad enough!
After tax,pension,mortgage(Not at all large btw),general living costs,I would have thought it would be a bit of a struggle for 3 lots of fees.
Fortunately we are catholic and have access to a top performing catholic high school,so we haven't had to pay privately.
Also we are in the north.

BeenBeta - I can see why the thought of a state school where only religious children are admitted plus quasi voluntary fees should uncomfortable. However the alternative makes me feel uncomfortable...

If it were not available I guess for middle class parents there would be private schools. The problem is what would happen to the poorer families who could not afford these schools. Many/most would not send their children to the local state school. Currently all VA schools must teach the national curriculum and standards of secular teaching is generally high. Those who genuinely can't afford it don't pay the fees and their child gets the same eduction as everyone else.

However private schools gave much more flexibility in what they teach and if state schools were not available then there would be children sent to private schools where extreme cost cutting measures would be made (esp if school in poorer area), including no or little secular teaching, unsuitable unqualified teachers, unsuitable accomodation, and no guarentee that the school would be open next year. As a result many children would come out of schools not being able to write english or do any maths, and therefore would not be employable.

I second dixiechick1975. We are not happy with our local school, chances of getting into other state schools not high. Looked at the cost of secondary level private school for 2 kids (6 years each as we're in Scotland), and estimated it at 120k. Then looked at house prices in more desirable catchments, and the private school option is cheaper!

The reason we go private is that I am not happy with GcSEs. The schools we have chosen do the IGcSE courses, which they say are more demanding. If the local state school did them, too, I would possibly be thinking again.

MumNWLondon* - I guess what makes me feel uncomfortable is that these schools seem to have negotiated a 'carve out' of the state education budget for their exclusive use and then set about making sure that only a very select group of children get to that school and on top of that the parents get to add some more money which they do on a tax free basis to bring the quality up to private school standard.

Kind of 'having the cake of private and eating it in the state sector'. I dont undersand your arguement why sending these children to normal state school would result in them not learning to read and write.

People spit feathers on here about me and others sending DSs private and go mad when I suggest that a voucher system for all children would be a good idea so I could put tat to pay part of the private fees.

Seems to me that no one dares to criticise what is going on here when it is perfectly clear that in London the VA schools are just private schools with the benefit of state subsidy plus mostly well off parents paying the fee from pre-tax income as a 'donation.

What are the chances of me pitching up at your DCs school and putting my DSs in. I am Jewish by birth but non practicing - bet I wouldnt get past the 'informal selection' process even though I would be happy to pay and could afford the fee.

Allbie, I wouldn't be at all disappointed if any of my three failed to reach dizzy heights academically.

I don't pay to ensure they get excellent GCSEs and A'Levels. I pay for the experience they receive. I pay for the music and the sport and the 80acres which includes woodland. I pay for the swimming and the orienteering. I pay for the climbing wall and the rope swings and the zip wire. I pay for the enormous range of visitors they have in school and the huge range of activities on offer which you simply don't get in a state school.

I am not interested in exclusivity or elitism and I would never send my kids to one of those tiny preps with no land and straw hats. I pay for the experience they get every day. They absolutely love it and if, when they leave they can say the whole experience was fabulous, then for me it will have been worth it.

BeenBeta - perhaps, the point about not learning to read etc was in connection with very religious private schools which don't teach secular. But yes, what you describe is broadly correct.

re: your kids - prior to the JFS case many of the schools operated on a entrance to those who were jewish by birth, (so that the schools were accessible to non practising jews too) so you would have been eligible however that policy was deemed racist by the courts, now places must go to "practising jews" - and so synagogue attendance is required. Technically though someone who wasn't jewish at all could get a place by synagogue attendance once a month.

So yes if you wanted a place and were prepared to attend the synagogue around 10 times the year before, yes you could have a place - although some schools though have higher religious requirements than synagogue attendance

www.theus.org.uk/jewish_living/schools_and_nurseries/application_process/

Archstanton, thanks for that. It is very nice to hear it.

I have got to admit - I dont understand these faith schools at all! People claiming to be Catholic etc to get into schools. I 100% agree with Archstanton. Our DC is going to be going to an excellent private boarding school (I would say that!)in Sept having spent the last two years weekly boarding which he loves. Its the experience that he is getting, the sports he can try, the encouragement to do your absolute best. Yes, there is competition, league tables etc but that is life. There is no meddling by government, no new policies to try out and it is worth every penny...

Ds is really looking forwards to starting his secondary school, he can do so much, reading groups/archery/climbing/fencing club/debating/music/latin/spanish. None of this is on offer at the catchment school. He's going to a fantastic school.

Oh and for what it's worth, if any of mine wanted to be a nurse, I'd be nothing short of proud.

Likewise Archstanton,in the case of ds1 and ds3 I am not paying for better results in terms of GCSEs,although that would be nice(but of course I wll never know what he would have got)but for the can do attitude,the smaller enviroment,our catchment school has 2000 pupils, their school has 900; plenty big enough but small enough that they know everyone in their year and the teachers know most by name .The music and competitive sport although neither are especially sporty and the high expectations.

In ds2s case we pay for the specialised tuition for him and the tiny classes at this school and again the high expectations ,at our local school he would be lucky to be entered for 5 GCSEs as he has SEN at his current school he will do and probably get 6 a to c passes

We pay about £3500 a term for prep and £4000 for senior and do without a lot to acheive that

There's nothing wrong with nursing. I trained as a childrens nurse for a couple of years.

The music on offer if fantastic, every sort of instrument is availiable. A few old boys have been olympians/top sporty people , they all send their shirts to the school which are displayed at the school.

we had two good high schools here, now one has been turned into a massive 'faith' only school so all the local kids have one local choice. it's really unfair yet acceptable i find it mental quite frankly.

i have no idea why their children are not being made to mix into thelocal community and it's dividing the community. fantastic

That's crazy astra!