To wonder how the bloody hell people afford private education for their kids?

[HarderToKidnap]

Thinking about TTC and getting WAY ahead of myself I idly googled the local private schools. Bloody hell!! HOW do people afford this? My DH and I earn 100k between us every year so certainly not poor, but with a mortgage (on a two bed terrace) and other, what I consider to be reasonable, outgoings there is just not a way it could be done. So all these children being privately educated, do their parents earn masses and masses? Or am I missing a trick?

(Incidentally I wouldn't send my kid to private school - comprehensive was brilliant for me and if a child is going to do well they will do well, I believe. Was just wondering.)

Its a voluntary aided school - I assumed all VA schools worked the same, way all jewish schools work on same model, but some ask for less money if the amount of religious studies they offer is less. It is voluntary which is why its from pre tax salary. If you are on lower income you call school and say the contributions are too much and they don't ask again.

The government know about this, not a tax loophole as you don't actually have to pay. Your child gets the same education whether you pay or not. They need the money to pay the religious teachers as this is not paid for by the state, plus they also have to raise some of their building costs.

They are not allowed to ask if you can afford it when offering places - they are bound by admissions code - so distance or lottery etc. But it is self selecting a bit - eg poorer parents put off because everyone else pays and other schools are "cheaper".

VA schools work differently- at ours, all kids take an RE exam each year 9and some face to face with the Bishop- ds3 had this last week, no idea why they chose him ) and if they pass, according to some will made in about 839BCE, the school gets a payment from the trust. And we get a letter as aprents whinging there's not enough God mentioned in maths and that if he has to do the inspection next year could someone give him some hemlock. Seriously.

Ours is a catchment VA school unlike a Jewish school so not really on to ask for cash in that we didn't have a real choice in where they attended.

Sonnet- I think it is about income as well as expenditure: here in Wales I don't know anyone who makes enough to budget £25k without stopping eating and paying rent; an average salary for a decent job (say, transport manager with HND quals as DH used to do before Uni) pays in region of £18k (he commuted to England for more money, but not everyone lives close enough to do that). OTOH there are very few decent privates here as a result; only ine in immediate locality and not one I would personally choose.

Luckily we have some stunning satte schools here: DS3's is amazing despite being probably very low income in it's intake; ds1's is perfection and private equivalent if youa re academic- most aprents move ehre rather than paying private fees. OTOH ds2 doesn't suit the state school as he falls into that gap where he's not academic or sufficiently SEN (bad dyslecxia / dyspraxia) to get real help so if we ahd the option we'd pay private for him like a shot.

I think it's about knwoing your children, where they'd thrive and the local school provision inside out to amke best matches.

I could never afford it myself as i am asingle parent, but my Ex pays for our DS of 9 yrs to go to a very good Chorister prep school and its about £4950 per term at the moment and increasing every year. On top there is school uniform and trips etc. My Ex may have been a total bastard but he is doing right by our son and paying for an excellent private Education. Ds has come on in leaps and bounds and his behaviour has improved immensely. An Education is something you can NEVER take away from someone.
My older two grown up kids had to go to a state comprehensive and i wish they had not. I went to private school and feel privalaged that i did. My parents were not rich. They scrimped and saved and had not holidays. We lived in a small 3 bed house. My sister got to Oxford and a top class Degree because of public school!!

Our 3 dc go to private school and there is a huge variety of people there - from those who pay the bill without blinking, to those who really really struggle. We sit somewhere in the middle. Oh, and gp pay for one child.

We have a joint income of considerably less than 100k. My salary pays fees and the cleaner and any babysitting. dh does mortgage, bills, and holidays.

We run one old car, and use the bus if we have to be in different places at the same time. We all have good quality bikes and the elder ones can bike to rugby training on their own now. Our holidays consist of going to my parents in the countryside which they love, and costs nothing. We also go to France every summer - drive down and stay in mil's house. That holiday usually costs us about £400.

But our mortgage is miles lower than op's at about £1200 a month, and fees round here are about £7500 a year for primary rising to £12000 for secondary, up to £15000 for sixth form.

It is doable, and the dc do not feel that they miss out on stuff, but although we would like to move to a bigger house, that's not going to happen.

We would have been more comfortable and felt more financially secure to use state schools until secondary (they are terrible in this city) but after 2 years in the local Ofsted Outstanding primary my eldest ds was miserable, withdrawn and learning nothing, and the school was totally unwilling to help in any way.

It means that my dc will not ski until they can pay for it themselves, and their holidays will not get more glamorous and exciting. Poor them

Pixie- just interested, does your partner/husband work very long hours to finance your family and if this is the case, does he see your children much?

Paying fees is a valid alternative to moving though.

My house in catchment for a good or outstanding state school would be at least £150,000 more. Plus an extra hour commute each day for myself and DH with associated loss of time with DD.

Private fees for primary age will set us back £35,000 so alot less than a bigger mortage, cost of commute, cost (and upheaval) of moving.

That's a really nosey question allbie

It is very hard, we are about to start doing it. We're going to find it very hard indeed.

And we've been saving up for ten years to reach the point where they can start. It's a lot of sacrifice.

ps I want a new kitchen whinge whinge

ain't gonna happen, plus the not going out, and the not doing anything much really

moan moan

Nosey question? Merely asking, it didn't have to be answered but I asked it to see if financing the kids through school meant they lost out on dad time but this is clearly not the case!I'm just in awe...isn't that allowed?

I see your point allbie, it's also a bit like a complete stranger coming up to me and asking me where ds's father is.

belle surely the point is not that allbie's question was nosey but that it could come across as rather, um, judgey about any parent who does choose to work long hours in order to finance (what they see as) the best education for their child.

True minipie.

Sorry if that was how it came across, no offence meant...to have everything so well placed must be seriously great. I work unsocial hours to merely keep our heads above water...just jealous intrigue on my part!

People afford a school in different ways. Some do work long hours, some get funding from the school (bursary), some get help from grandparents.

I need a fairy godmother!

Na, you need a school that offers bursarys.

If it makes you feel better, Allbie, we are a family that do sacrifice 'Daddy time' to earn what he earns. Well it's not so much that he does it to pay fees as his job demands it regardless but it does make me sad sometimes.

He's a great dad and all three adore him but they don't see him as much as any of us would like. I console myself with the thought that at least we are lucky that it is financially rewarding as many people work all hours for minimum wage just to keep their head above water.

albie- if it makes you feel any better, I think far more people are in your position than pixie's (ie earning v large amounts for a 9-5 job).
Most people have to work hard and only earn enough to cover the bills. There isn't always a correlation between how hard you work, educational level and level of income.

allbie - DH works very long hours. He's actually away at the moment. And of course the children miss him.
But he doesn't do it to pay the school fees.
He does it because he is very ambitious and loves what he does.
Of course the renumeration allows us to pay for all sorts of things, school fees included.

MumNWLondon - does the voluntary contribution also pay for the extra security that Jewish schools need? Or does the state pay for this?

It's the Jewish state schools which seem to have those fees. I haven't heard of C of E or Catholic doing it and I imagine it's illegal but the parents all play ball so it continues.
Most people paying for child care for 2 under 5s find that paying school fees is simply a replacement for that. it's no different. If you can afford it from age 1 - 5 you can afford day school fees from 5 - 18.

Yes, the VCs also cover the extra security that jewish schools need - my DC employs a full time security guard. The state does not pay for us to keep our children safe.

The VA "fees" are totally legal in voluntary aided schools - hence the name - voluntary aided.

One jewish school got into trouble for denying a younger child a place as the parents didn't pay up for the older sibling (and hadn't told the school office why they were not paying). That was illegal and (rightly) the school was forced to take the younger sibling.