to think that its a bit much to let a 7 year old change a wet bed at night

[extension]

My dd is currently under the enurisis clinic for bedwetting. She is 7. We are following all the advice and instructions but, one of the things the doctor wants her to do is strip and change the wet bed at night and record the time, without help from me.

Now, I would almost certainly hear her fumbling around trying to do this and it breaks my heart to think that I could leave her struggling with all this. Also, she cant tell the time so she wouldnt be able to record it anyway.

I told the doctor that I didnt feel comfortable doing this but she just said that she was advising me what to do and thinks I should follow the advice.

No that is unkind. Do not make her do it

My friend was advised by the clinic to get her daughter to change her bed (same age)and I thought at the time it would make her dd upset. However, she did it and her dd was dry in a few weeks. I don't know the logic behind it but something worked!

YANBU. if it helps, a friend of mine used to run these clinics and would hand out this advice - then she had children of her own. She commented more than once that a lot of the advice she had been handing out was not very sensible in practice.

It may be the theory but I doubt it is anything other than a not very thought out standard response and you should do whatever makes you happier.

I don't agree with the posters suggesting it's attention seeking, but I also don't believe it is always hormone related. We have a problem with our dc wetting the bed, he is only just 5 but we went to the enueris clinic and they explained the difference between hormone related bed wetting and heavy sleep related bed wetting.

Some children wet the bed (most) because the hormone that slows down urine production hasn't kicked in yet. It mostly kicks in around 3-4 but very often takes a while longer. Doctors won't do anything medically until the child is at least 7, but even then it is better to wait. Sometimes it becomes more of an issue for the child because this is the age when children start having sleep overs and the like. It is very obviously embarrasing for a child to wet themselves on a sleep over.

Other children wet the bed because they are simply sleeping to heavily. They are unable to wake themselves up even though they may have an inclin that they need to pee. This is where the alarms come in etc.

Obviously the two can occur together but they are differentiated by the amount of pee present iyswim. Our dc was peeing more at night than he was during the day, the doctor said that that was a clear indication that the hormone had not kicked in yet. He told us to go home and just leave him to it and not even worry about him wetting himself until he was at least 7. All he advised was to take him to the toilet before we went to bed and that was it.

Initially I thought your doctor was barking because its a way of 'punishing' the child for something they can't control. However, after reading other posts I have seen that in some circumstances (and with some children) this method may be of benefit to both parent and child (ie child doesn't have the hassle and embarrassment of waking mum, and mum does not get disturbed)

I personally think it depends on your dds maturity her personality and how she copes with bed wetting at the moment.
If for example she wakes upset, needs help changing and wants to be reassured and tucked back into bed, it would be cruel and a unnecessary 'punishment'. However on the other hand, if dd wakes after wetting without being overly bothered or upset and is capable of whipping off a wet sheet I'd say its not unreasonable.

Could you start by double layering the bed, so when accidents happen and she wakes you, dd sees how easy it is to 'make up the bed' Perhaps then this gives her the option to be able to do it herself if she feels capable? But there's no pressure or guilt from either party.

It's not recommended as a punishment.

The idea is that the child wakes up fully in dealing with the wet sheets/pyjamas rather than rolling over and going back to sleep. Many children that wet lack arousability ie fully waking when wet, so if you can ask them to make sure they get up if they are wet and deal with it you are reinforcing the message that wetness at night = doing something about it.

It should go hand in hand with using the toilet, even if nothing left in the bladder. The child needs to be fully wakened, and in time the brain will wake before wetting rather than afterwards.

Changing the bed should never be a punishment, and the message should be 'try and deal with it if you can but call me if you need help'. I personally only advised the child dealing with their own sheets from about 9 or 10, I think 7 is rather young but not impossible.

Very few children wet for attention (but some do, I worked with 2 that did) and wetting at night isn't always due to lack of the hormone, that is one big reason but not the only one.

Recording the time that the child has wet can be helpful as often if the child lacks vasopressin (the hormone that reduces urine production overnight) then they wet large volumes and they wet early in the evening, often before midnight. If the child is wetting in the early hours it's usually for another reason.

Nocturnal enuresis can be complex and have many reasons, a thorough assessment is needed and it's not always a case of just giving it time. Many children will become dry at night with no intervention but some need a bit more help.

So sorry to barge in - but Sidge, could you offer any advice on my bedwetting thread? In active coinvos atm

Sorry again everyone!

will go and look for it!

I suppose it is a bit different if you have dry bedding in the room and say to them 'if you don't want to wake me up you can just sort it yourself' which is quite different than the parent standing there saying 'you must change it'. The latter sounded like something from the Victorian workhouse!
I can see that it might apppeal just to be able to change it themselves.

Sidge - thanks very much, lots of good information in your reply.

Can't see either of mine dealing with this at age 7 without getting the carpet soaked in wee. Good job they didn't bed wet.

But have noticed that paeds are always very keen on telling me ways in which ds' life must not be made easier because it would embarrass him- have never yet known them to hit on something that actually does embarrass him. They don't know your child. You do.

I think the thing that makes the difference is letting them have the choice. You leave the dry bedding handy and say that if they want to they can sort it, but that you don't mind at all if they wake you.

It won't work. I know that the idea around it is to stop the wetting because this is seen as punishment for wetting, but it didn't work for my niece.

It was heartbreaking listening to her try this (I stayed at hers quite often) and took her ages. All the time she was crying/asking for help. One morning her mum found her asleep on the floor, with bed half made (she was v quiet as she didn't want to wake anyone & tried to do it without calling out). She was still in the wet pyjamas & had sore legs from the urine. That was the last time my sister let her do it.

She wet until she was 11 & nothing stopped her. She was seen at GOSH & had alarms etc, cut out drinks after 4pm, cut out certain drinks, cut out dairy food (?) limited drinking, lifting, pads, going to the toilet every 30 mins (whether she needed to or not) but it just stopped, at 11, untreated, on its own.

Oh & niece's dr told my sister it was a punishment, to try to break the habit, as GiddyPickle mentioned

"The reasoning behind it is punishment. It is to show the child that if you make a big inconvenient mess then you will have to get up, staggering around in the middle of the night to put it right rather than Mummy fixing it and letting you "get away with it" by going back to sleep straight away"

Not read all thread as on phone and slow but I would ask for a 2nd opinion. That's awful and would break my heart too.

You need to read all the thread cheekybigbrother-I thought that, but really it isn't as it seems from the OP.

I had the same advice from the enuresis clinic for DS1.

Well when he was 7 and he started going it was more of a "help" me change his bed (ie don't just sit there and watch me change it for him).

Now he's 9 1/2 (oh yes- we're still going) he's expected to change his bed and he does......although often he does the easy option of changing his sheet and pillow case and then just turning his duvet up side down so the wet is at the top........and he then changes that during the next day when he's more awake.

I think the reasoning behind it is partly about taking some responsbility. No it's not their fault, but at the same time often they have to make some of the effort and can't just rely on mum/dad to remind them to drink enough during the day, do wee-teeth-wee, switch the alarm off etc etc etc.

Some of it does require effort on their behalf.

"I told the doctor that I didnt feel comfortable doing this but she just said that she was advising me what to do and thinks I should follow the advice."

I think this is unacceptably lazy of the doctor. She should be able to give you reasons for her advice, and those reasons should be backed by evidence. If she can't say "research has shown that this works", she shouldn't be recommending it.

Somw doctors don't have a clue (My own DH is a GP - I'm not doctor bashing) Please don't listen to him / her - you know what is best for your child.

well GP's, are by nature "general" practioners. They may have a specialist field/interest of some sort just in general terms they know a little bit about most things.

The OP was at the enuresis clinic - where I would have expected her to have at least spoken to an enuresis nurse

I wasnt speaking to the GP, I was at the enuresis clinic and the enuresis nurse was in the room but I was actually referring to a conversation between myself and the paediatrician. Sorry if I confused things by referring to her as doctor.

extension I think the cosensus is if you're not comfortable with it then just ignore

• CONSENSUS

what on earth is wrong with my typing ??

I cannot understand what the DR thinks may be gained from her doing this? In what possible way could this help to solve the problem?