To not want to pressure MIL to look after the children more just because DH thinks she should?

[Beachcomber]

Will try to keep this short but clear.

MIL and I have a pretty good relationship, she loves our 2 DDs and likes it when we go to see her (she lives up the road). She has mostly been quite helpful on the odd occasions that we have asked her to look after the children but we do not ask her very often. They are 4 and 6 years old.

MIL has just recently retired - she is quite young, fit and healthy and very active. I work from home and often find it difficult (and stressful) to fit everything in around the children. DH works long hours but we share childcare evenly when he is around.

DH thinks now retired MIL could/should help us out by having the children say one day a week. (We are in France where it is common for GPs to look after children quite a lot). MIL says she doesn't want to get into a fixed routine as she is very busy (she cleans her house a lot and has a big garden).

I have asked her a few times to help me out for a couple of hours and she does when she can but equally often says no.

So, after all that - DH thinks I should be phoning her at the beginning of the week to sort out when she can have the children in order to get her into a bit of a routine of helping. I would find this utterly excruciating to do as she clearly doesn't want to look after the DCs too much. I do call her when I'm stuck but I am utterly unwilling to try to force some sort of arrangement on her.

DH thinks I'm being a woos and have no right to stress over childcare if I'm not going to do this. We don't really have any other help apart from limited help from a child minder (money a bit tight too).

So AIBU to disagree with DH and think that if he thinks MIL should have the kids once a week on principle then he needs to take her to task over it even though it would help me out?

You are right & NBU. If he's so adamant his mother should help, he should ask her.

She has her own life (just reclaimed, since she's just retired) and well done to you for respecting that.

Are there any after school clubs or similar that you could enroll your children in?

Your DH is BVU to expect his mother to do regular childcare when she has said that she doesn't want to do it. And BVVVU to tell you to hassle her about it

YADNBU. It's not your job to "train" your MIL into a routine that she has explicitly said that she doesn't want to have. Bloody hell, I'm horrified that your DH thinks this is okay.

In fact, he's showing all sorts of male entitlement, isn't he?

It sounds like he thinks that, because you're the one trying to juggle the children and working from home, it's your responsibility to find childcare. That's utter tosh. You both have jobs which are largely incompatible with childcare. You need to work together to find an answer to that. They're his children too. He doesn't have to "stress about childcare" because you do it, which is lovely for him but completely unfair.

So, you need to sit down as a couple and work out what your childcare needs are. Put as many options on the table as possible; can he cut his hours or negotiate one day a week from home? Can you increase the time that they're at the childminder? Can you train your DH out of thinking that child care is a woman's responsibility and his mother and wife should sort it out while he swans off to the office every day?

No yanbu and neither is your Mil.

Your Dh should ask her what (if any) childcare Mil wants to do.

His Mum, his responsability.

Sorry your Dh is being an arse in this case, if he is so desperate for HIS mother to look after them then he should be the one badgering her. She, quite rightly IMO wants to sit back and enjoy life now she is retired, she has done her child-rearing.

You are definitely not being unreasonable!

How patronising of your DH to think that just because she's retired that she should become your new child minder.

The way you have (both) chosen to deal with childcare is your issue, and if you need more formal care then you should sort it out; but to expect his mother to just step into the role is not on.

Beachcomber - as I understand it, your DH and your MIL are French. IMVHO, asking this question of an essentially British audience on MN is pointless; the French have quite different attitudes to grandparent-grandchild relationships which, incidentally, are governed by law. Grandparents in France have rights and responsibilities towards grandchidren that they do not have in England.

what kinds of rights and responsibilities? just being nosy.

Gosh swift replies, thanks.

Just to add, as we are in France the 4 year old goes to school too. They are both at school for 6 hours four days a week (no school on a Wednesday in France) - this is our main childcare solution. There is an after school club which they go to once a week - it makes it a long day for my youngest though.

Totally agree that DH is being an arse re male entitlement, childcare being the little wife's problem, etc.

We had an argument a discussion about it last night in exactly those terms (plus weird French attitude to grandmother's childcare 'duty'. I suspect this is a bit of a cultural thing).

OP - YANBU!

Do your DCs eat lunch at home or at the school canteen, Beachcomber? It would be entirely normal for your MIL to have them for lunch on a regular basis a couple of times a week, and for all or part of Wednesday.

You will encounter big childcare problems if your MIL doesn't pitch in.

True Bonsoir, very true. Yes they are both difficult people French

I however am not French and do not behave like a French woman.

I understand what you mean re British reaction though (makes me feel better however!).

Kids eat at school canteen once a week - eldest has multiple food allergies that canteen are good about accommodating but does complicate things. Other days they come home which does eat into my day a fair bit but I catch up for a couple of hours in the evening.

Interesting you think it is ok to ask MIL to do a couple of lunches Bonsoir.

have to go out now - back later.

Why don't you sit down with your DH, explain where you are coming from as a British woman and that you know where he is coming from as a French man (and, yes, childcare is basically the mother's responsibility in France so don't come down too hard on his macho French POV) and ask him where he thinks his mother is on this one. The best thing you can do is to try to disentangle all your cultural attitudes without apportioning blame, and then to work on your MIL.

Honestly, life in France is very hard if GPs don't help, so try to work towards it!

Bonsoir - You're probably right there if they are French, but the point still stands that it shouldn't be down to the OP to hassle her MIL into doing something. We might not know all the official repsonsibilites that the MIL has, but it should still be down to this woman's son to talk to her, rather than him fobbing off the conversation onto his wife.

TBH, if the MIL had come on here and posted about the situation, we might well have wound up getting a DIL-from-hell thread if that were the case. If a similar situation arose with us, I certainly wouldn't badger my MIL - she's DP's mother, so he can talk to her. I wouldn't presume to be so rude as to argue when she's not my parent!

OP, YANBU to not want to say this to her, though I don't know about the whole situation re: what Bonsoir has said.

When my DSSs were little, my DP's parents "did" all Wednesday (chauffeuring to activities, lunch) and had them to stay every single Saturday night. And took them to Deauville every July for a whole month. Plus other less regular stuff. This is normal, not exceptional.

Well if there are different expectations in France then fine.....it's just that if your husband wants it to happen he is going to have to talk to his mother. Your not French and don't have the same expectations or experience.

Tell him to talk to his mum because you will not. If he calls you a wus then just say say "yes I am, now go sort it out for me please." Or, is he, in fact, afraid of his mother?

"Bonsoir - You're probably right there if they are French, but the point still stands that it shouldn't be down to the OP to hassle her MIL into doing something. We might not know all the official repsonsibilites that the MIL has, but it should still be down to this woman's son to talk to her, rather than him fobbing off the conversation onto his wife."

This is a cultural attitude too! It is quite normal for DILs to arrange childcare with their MILs here, without fathers intervening.

Great advice from Bonsoir there. How interesting to hear that it is normal in France. I see a lot of GPs here taking the DC home for lunch.

Basically I'm saying there is no reason to be outraged here - nothing outrageous is going on! It is just a cultural clash between the OP and her DH.

I see what you are saying Bonsoir but husband has to meet the OP half way. He did not marry a French woman so he is going to have to be a bit more understanding and help with the dialogue with his mother.

I agree that it would be a lot better if the DH does the talking to his mother in the first instance - I always used to let my DP talk to his mother about DD because I was so frightened of misunderstandings.

But my relationship with my MOL has improved immeasurably since I have started (many years down the line) taking initiatives myself. It took us many, many years to even begin to work out how to behave to one another though!

Having spent swathers of time in France (nieces and nephews half French) I am not aware of any culteral expectation that grandparents help out and even if there is, why on earth shopuld they?

You've already got 24 hours a week cover.

My sister and dh have 4 kids, both worked full time and basically sorted it out themselves.

What an odd assumption that she has a duty to care for the children you chose to have.

Have a similar situation (although was suggested when I posted, that I needed to 'get over myself' )

Retired MIL is fit and healthy. Is constantly gardening and shopping. She announced a few weeks ago that she cannot manage DS (2.4) anymore. This is for the 3 - 4 times she has been asked in the past 6 months or so. In other words, not regular and definitely not regular child care by any stretch of the imagination. No more than 3 hours maximum. Her choice absolutely, but perhaps what was annoying was that she 'announced' in front of the children that, 'you have an angel (DD) and a devil (DS)' .

I think you should ask your MIL something vague like, 'so, what are plans in retirement?' Obviously she has thought about how she wants to fit into the children's lives, and no doubt will want to see more of them.

She may want something less formal. The sort of grandmother who does fun things with the kids rather than the one who does childcare.

But agree with others. Don't pressure her. Sounds as if your DH feels that it's his entitlement