To not want to pressure MIL to look after the children more just because DH thinks she should?

[Beachcomber]

Will try to keep this short but clear.

MIL and I have a pretty good relationship, she loves our 2 DDs and likes it when we go to see her (she lives up the road). She has mostly been quite helpful on the odd occasions that we have asked her to look after the children but we do not ask her very often. They are 4 and 6 years old.

MIL has just recently retired - she is quite young, fit and healthy and very active. I work from home and often find it difficult (and stressful) to fit everything in around the children. DH works long hours but we share childcare evenly when he is around.

DH thinks now retired MIL could/should help us out by having the children say one day a week. (We are in France where it is common for GPs to look after children quite a lot). MIL says she doesn't want to get into a fixed routine as she is very busy (she cleans her house a lot and has a big garden).

I have asked her a few times to help me out for a couple of hours and she does when she can but equally often says no.

So, after all that - DH thinks I should be phoning her at the beginning of the week to sort out when she can have the children in order to get her into a bit of a routine of helping. I would find this utterly excruciating to do as she clearly doesn't want to look after the DCs too much. I do call her when I'm stuck but I am utterly unwilling to try to force some sort of arrangement on her.

DH thinks I'm being a woos and have no right to stress over childcare if I'm not going to do this. We don't really have any other help apart from limited help from a child minder (money a bit tight too).

So AIBU to disagree with DH and think that if he thinks MIL should have the kids once a week on principle then he needs to take her to task over it even though it would help me out?

There are constant suggestions in France about how to reduce the (massive) state budget for the under-sixes. The latest is to increase the adult:child ratio in crèches, and to increase the number of children allowed in existing infrastructure. Last year there were suggestions about reducing the level of qualification required for école maternelle teachers.

moondog - I suggest your re-read the thread. Nowhere I have I suggested that the French way is the right way; on the contrary, I have not made value judgements about either culture, just explained the differences in value neutral terms. Knowing about another culture does not mean that one has to adhere to it.

mamaloco - sorry, I missed your post. But you are wrong you know! Their rights are enshrined in law!

We have a similar situation here in Spain.. in fact, I could have written the OP.

I don't actually expect anything of my ILs but I have to admit it does grind when, as for example now, that school is breaking up for the holidays, most of the other kids' gps jump in to help out..

My ILs jump out!

I think it will come back on them though.. my DCs are hardly going to want to put themselves out to keep them company in their lonely old age..

But surely GPs are not legally expected to look after grandchildren?

I get that it is a different culture-but times change, & not everyone wants to adhere!

Mmm lots to think about again. I do live in France - should have made that clearer from the beginning, I missed how important it is.

Thank you FioFio.

DH was the first person to bring this up with his mum - he is not afraid of her. She has slightly brought the situation on herself by spending the last year saying how much she was looking forward to being able to spend more time with the children. She and DH had a perfectly reasonable conversation about it (I think) but by the time I spoke to her it had turned into DH's original request of her helping out once a week to 'Beach can call me at the beginning of the week and I'll see if I have any spare time'.

Basically DH is a cross with her for saying one thing and doing another and cross with me for sort of 'letting her away with it'. Don't see what I'm supposed to do though other than say 'yes dear MIL you do sound very busy with all that polishing and grass cutting, let's see about next week shall we?'.

She always does this though so I'm not getting why we should suddenly be upset about it. Perhaps if she were my mother it would bother me more.

But spending time with her grandchildren doesn´t mean she has to be the one looking after them!

Of course I don't know her, and of course it must be infuriating to be trying to sort out childcare and have her backing off from what she said before, but I do wonder if she's just very wary of being tied down too much, now it has come to it. Or maybe even a bit anxious?

Is she good with the DCs? Sounds like she does want to spend more time with them, but on her terms.

This is not my experience of my own mum (I have no MIL), so I can see how it is annoying. But I can also see her side of it

x post with diddl - that is what I meant

Indeed diddl - many middle-class French GPs expect to have their GCs to stay for a large part of the holidays, and also expect their nanny to come too. Grand-mère can watch fondly from her terrace as the GCs play happily together under the supervision of the nanny...

True of course. We do see a lot of them all together where they see the kids but are not looking after them. I know MIL does also like to see the children without us as the dynamic is different. She just doesn't want to do it very often.

I suppose it is an interesting question generally - is it reasonable for GPs to see GC entirely on their own terms but never just because it might be helpful to the parents.

I do think it would be nice of MIL to help a bit as she knows all my family are far away - I can't make her want to do that though.

Dear me, Bonsoir-are these people really as awful as you make them sound?

She is good with the DC - she is very kind and affectionate (although a bit obsessed with cleaning the DC too). They love going there.

She isn't at all anxious about looking after them - she just doesn't want to very much. It is annoying when she says one thing and then backs out (very annoyingly she has a selective memory and will 'forget' that she ever said yes in the first place sometimes).

We know she is like this and therefore not dependable. I do not want to be dependant on her - it would just help me sometimes for her to pick up the DDs from school and look after them from an hour. I think DH wants a regular arrangement so she can't wriggle out of it.

But tbh it doesn´t seem to me that she has said one thing & is doing another.

She has said she doesn´t want to regularly look after the children.

That you can phone & ask-but not rely on it.

Didl she said ok to once a week to DH but then when I spoke to her to set a day (for a couple of hours max) she said she couldn't do a specific day. DH thinks I should be doing something about it - I think it's not really for me to do.

Issue is more between me and DH than me and MIL.

I wish I had a MIL or even my own mum to help out. MIl died recently and my mum is too ill to look after even herself
But I never expected them to even if they were able.

Gps don't owe it to their kids to help out, they will do it if they want to.

So she doesn´t want to be tied down to the same day/time every week?

But if you/your husband phone every week to ask & she does one day per week would that work?

Could it be that she will do it-but on her terms?
Ie she decides the day/times?

Diddl I have called her 3 weeks in a row as she has requested and each time she has been unavailable that week. I don't see much point in pursuing this with her - DH doesn't agree. I think that is the long and the short of it.

Ripeberry sorry to hear of your loss and circumstances. We have had some difficult times in this regard ourselves so I sympathise with you.

I do not expect anything of MIL. DH expects something of her and me that I find difficult.

I didn´t realise that you had done that already.

Seems as if she doesn´t want to then.

But if your husband thinks she should then I agree it is up to him to pursue it-but how far & to what point?

To argue & cause ill feeling?

What have you been doing for childcare up to this point?

Agree that pursuing to point of ill filling would be ridiculous.

Childcare = school plus child-minder plus good friend with reciprocal agreement which works well.

MIL option would be helpful but I see no obligation on her part - DH, however does. I think that is between him and his mum and wish to be involved as little as possible.

It´s possible that after she has settled into retirement a little more she way find her time not as filled as she thinks.

But if you have arrangements that work it would obviously be silly to mess that up for someone unreliable.

As a non French, I just find it really odd of your husband tbh.

And as I previously-it might be the "norm"-but there´s always someone who doesn´t want to conform!

How bizarre! Not for one second would I force my kids on someone who doesn't want to take care of them.

Can't really understand why your dh would want this, but I can understand him being pissed about it.

bonsoir what you are depicting is completely skewed. "middle class french" with nannies???? WTF? (to be polite) I am sure it exists but it is definitely upper upper class, and probably "royalty". Are you sure you are not talking about the UK royal familly on visit?
You must leave on boulevard de Breteuil and getting out of the 7th arrondissement is like an adventure.

diddl no they are not legally obliged to look after their GC. And you are right. I don't really like french people probably why I am an expat , but they are not horrible (well most of them, like everywhere in the world you can get everything )
For the rights and duties of GP, that is true that on the contrary of the UK, GP have some in France, but it is only common sense. I was shocked to see that in the UK after a divorce the DIL can compltely blocked access to her children without any real reason.

The rights of GP are to be allowed visiting and sleep-overs, and communications can't be cut; unless the judge think it is dangerous for the children mental or physical health or the child himself doesn't want to. The duty is that the GP have to feed thier GC if the parents can't and if they can afford it.
GP don't have to take thier GC on holidays or have no rights to if the parents disagree. Same for weekly help or visiting, no right and no duties.
Most middle class french people can't afford to go as a familly on holidays, so often the GP takes the kids out especially if they have a house in the country or next to the sea.
But as Flyingcloud says there is an expectation for the DH or DW (DH mainly) to have the GP looking after the GC. I have found the same in the UK in the 3 towns I have lived in. Having the kids for holidays seems to be completely latin though, I can say that it happens in portugal, spain, romania, and france, may be Franca can confirmed that it does exist in Italy too. With nobody asking or demanding, it is just natural when the familly works well.

Well, then, again, tell your DH he needs to speak to her about it.

And if he were my son, I'd tell him to go and get knotted.

this thread is interesting!
mamaloco thanks for explaining the legal rights they have - what legal responsibilities do they have?
Plus the "right" to see GC during the day, surely that has to be by arrangement with the parents- they can't just come and snatch them from wherever they are or what they're doing?

SPB the "only" (it is a big one) responsability GP have if to feed their GC if the parents can't. They can't visit at will or snatch the children. The parents have entire responsability and decide what and when they can see each others and how often or how long. I think most of the parents are still acting like kids with their parents, and sometime don't know how to say no or in my case how to ask for help may be we should all grow up!