To think the behaviour of these mothers is shocking and they bloody well deserve a slap?

[SassySusan]

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"WHAT is so intimidating?"

Unintentionally hurting someone by saying the wrong thing, when actually you are trying to offer support?

Well exactly hmc. When someone is vulnerable anyway. And clearly if getting it wrong means you should be ashamed and deserves a slap, it is fairly serious.

"WHAT is so intimidating? "

The slap you face for not getting it exactly right at exactly the right time.

So it's better to ignore and back off?

I do see that it is a worry. But isn't that true of lots and lots of situations? You can easily end up urting someone vulnerable by inadvertantly saying the wrong thing, can't you? I mean, I guess it would be interesting to see what people who are getting divorced or something experience. (By which I don't mean that getting divorced in any way equates to losing a child - just that it's a difficult situation where people may or may not offer support, they may or may not say the right thing when doing so.)

Again - what's so hard about saying/writing something really neutral?

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Maybe her comment about having a nice weekend was the only thing she could think of to say. I don't know what she could have said that would have been "right" given what you are going through. I mean, would you have preferred her to just say "goodbye" or would you have wanted her to refer to your bereavement? I hope this doesn't come across as a sarky rhetorical question, I am genuinely asking.

I used to work at a hospice, and had close contact with lots of bereaved people, including parents, and obviously like most of us have my own bereavements to draw on.We had regular "training" from our bereavement counsellors to help us work with bereaved peiople appropriately. The key thing that was emphasised again and again is to take your cue from them - because everyone is as different in grief as they are in anything else. So people might not bring up your DD until you do, or if you are working hard to put on a "brave face" perhaps they might feel comfortable to exchange niceties such as "have a good weekend" for example.

I hope your close friends and family are supporting you

No Problemo

But Sassy, what should they be saying and doing in your presence?

You are clear in your mind about what they shouldnt be saying and doing, but how should they be acting?

It seems like everything these other mothers say to you hurts and enrages you (and I am not excusing the downright ridiculous things people have said to you, like harassing you at her funeral or asking you personal questions about your future plans). Maybe that's just how things are going to be for a while. Something devastating has happened to you and you are out of kilter with the rest of the world. Maybe you just are going to feel extremely raw and upset by most people's comments and gestures for a while?

That doesn't excuse others avoiding you or saying clumsy things to you, or mean the onus is on you to be understanding of them - of course not. You have every right to feel angry and the onus is heavily on others to try to understand and accomodate you. But they might not always (or often) get it right, unfortunately, because generally people aren't very good at dealing with this sort of thing.

I am very, very sorry for your loss.

Having lost twin girls myself though, less than 8 weeks ago, I am sorry, but I do think YABU. I also think it's probably understandable though. (and please believe me when I say that just because I have also lost a child, it doesn't mean I think I know how you feel).

I don't think anyone is 'working hard to be blindingly insensitive'. Very, very few people would be deliberately insensitive. Most genuinely do not know what to say, but I suspect feel the need to say something and somehow try and 'justify' what has happened. Others do avoid either speaking at all or mentioning the lost child, IME, but I seriously doubt any of it is done out of spite or deliberately.

I know myself I wouldn't have known how to deal with it if a friend lost their child, and maybe even still wouldn't. I know several people who lost their husbands last year (Afghanistan) and now realise I said consistently stupid things to them in an effort to just say something.

I can't imagine how hard things must be for you right now, but that doesn't mean things are easy for others.

I simply try and understand why people behave and say the things they do, and I have to admit, I have even been able to laugh at a couple of truly ridiculous, and if I wanted to take it that way, hugely insensitive, things people have said. If I didn't, what else would I do?!

People genuinely mean well.

SassySusan - again, I don't know what to say. Most people are motivated to try and help you and make things right - which of course is impossible. It can't be made right. Your last post was heart rending. So very sad for you

OP - you are (justifiably) very angry. But don't take it out on the world at large. It won't help.

sassy so sorry to hear about the loss of your daughter.

I lost dd2 at 20 weeks pg so completely different.....but again faced stupid comments ....like when pg with DC3 being toasted "congratulations for baby no2" by very close friends... Could write a book about the stupid things people have said........but really I don't believe (now) that there was any malice behind the comments...but i didn't see that at the time.

I really think a lot of it is small talk, and not knowing what to say. I think it's a different set of circumstances if its mums as the school gate who you know, but don't have a relationship with. They might feel like they are being nosey or something.

Somedays I wanted to talk about DD2, other days I didn't and did just want a day off from it very occasionally. A few hours before i'd go home and grieve in private. Some days I saw peoples comments as shit other days it didn't affect me as much.

I thought the comments about 'have a nice weekend' were meant in good faith....but thats because i'm in a different place now. Putting myself back to the time of my deepest sadness i'd have thought "nice weekend, how? sod off!" (we also went on holiday shortly after loosing dd2 to get away, helped us as a family, but i can totally appreciate how its not the right thing for everyone).

I think the reason people don't know what to say or do is because all situations are different, everyone deals with things in a different way, so perhaps there is no set way perhaps to talk to someone who has lost a loved one. Although in my experience i'd rather someone tried and messed up a little than ignored me and my daughter altogether.

When DS was 5yo another boy in his year group at the same school suddenly died.
Many years later, I still try to avoid ever saying DS's name in the presence of the other boy's parents; it must remind them of the unfairness that it was their XXX and not mine that died.

But I do think OP is being a control freak on this point:

"5) ...don't moan that your kids are annoying you, your new healthy baby is not the flavour you wanted, etc"

People are just chitchatting about their own experiences, not everything they say can be planned around the feelings of others.
And does it actually matter whether the baby is healthy or not -- there are infertile people who might say one should be grateful to ever have a baby at all, in any state of well-being, for any length of time, when they can't even get that far. I think that's an unrealistic attitude, but it seems like the natural extension of what OP said already.

she lost her child 2 months ago . not 2 years, no 2 bloody months. 8 weeks.

so fucking let her BU people, OK?

2 months ago, the worst thing that could ever happen, happended

so if she wants to smack people round the face with a wet fish, its fine by me

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Yes, I agree with Porcamiseria

Been thinking more about this.

To those who do not know what to say and are frightened of saying the wrong thing, surely it is not that difficult to understand that some things are incredibly hurtful.

There are some borderline comments which could be construed in different ways,but some comments are just truly appalling.

Why should the bereaved parents have to think about the feelings of the incredibly insensitive people?

Why should the OP be understanding that the people "meant well" when they said that her DD was just to sweet to live? Or who write songs about her DD without consulting her?

Many posters who have lost children, some many many years ago have posted examples of insensitive comments that they have received. Shabba is still hurt by comments that were made years and years ago. The person who made that comment walked away feeling smug and happy to have "comforted" Shabba, not knowing that their words have stuck with Shabba and still hurt her even today.

I'm sorry Sassy, you've lost me.

The last thing in the world I would want to do is offend you, so I will go now.

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sassy, I just wanted to add my own good wishes here, as anothr bereaved mother, it is utterly crap. i well remember those first trips to the supermarket when you would bump into someone who would say "how nice to see you out and about" meaning "thank goodness you are over it now" - and you want to run crying from the place, because you are only there so the rest of the family don't starve. people would go on about us "looking forward to" christmas/holidays - forgetting our expectations were totally different had DD not been stillborn.

that "song" is the most dire thing to do with bereavement that i have ever seen - it made me feel ill - it must have felt like a kick in the guts to you in your raw grief, am appalled that the nursery had any hand in it

I hope you are getting lots of support in RL from those closest to you and your DD

take care

Well said porca ! In thier defence however ,people are terrified of the grieving ,scared of saying the wrong thing ,making it worse (unlikely one i know ) and sounding like a heartless moron. It is during this time that you will discover the people who really count and learn to pity those that are too afraid to ask you simply how you are

I agree with MmeLindt

Some comments are a bit awkward or clumsy - others are just plain wrong.

DH used to just say there are always idiots in life, no matter what the circumstances, shrug his shoulders and move on....I still remember every comment from every person...

Thisisbloodyhardwork asks: 'What I'd be really interested to know is, what is so terrifying about saying the wrong thing? I mean - so you might end up saying the wrong thing. So? What's going to happen? '

Well the bereaved posters on here have said they remember flippant remarks years on so of course that is now at the back of many of our minds

Sassy - I'm so sorry for your loss xx

But there's saying the stupid, insensitive, cruel wrong thing, and the innocent, well-meaning wrong thing.

well, i think mayor quimby has just provided the exact point the OP is trying to make.