to expect my frends to know that toddlers Do bite and hit other children?

[busygirl]

i mean shes 2 and i always tell her off/put on time out when she does bite but i have friend that comes to me "oh,look at this bite on my boy,look at this sign from last time etc when i already put her on time out...or she told me i need to be careful or she'll grow up selfish(as there's a lot of fighting over her toys!your opinion?im obviously very sorry that her boy get bitten but i cant follow my dd around all the time?

Sorry but you do need to follow your DD around even with another smaller child to look after.

If you must see this other child and can't just avoid until the biting phase is over, I think you need to plan their sessions together.

For example, could you set out playdoh on a table so the children have some distance between them? I always find playdoh has quite a calming influence!

Ow- poor your ds, detective. I would be tempted to banish clothes pegs from the toy box from now on.

i dont think you should let your child socialise AT ALL if you arent prepared to nip this in the bud asap!! you SHOULD be watching him like a hawk and following him around. never mind that you've got a baby as well....its up to you to sort this....not pass it off as something they do!

YABU.
My dd has sen and while she never ever bites or hits she goes very close to people. If a child or baby is lying on the ground playing she will not walk around but step very close and step over. If child moves, would get stamped on by mistake.
She is 8 and I still need to watch her like a hawk.
My ds was a hitter when a toddler and I had to watch him when around other children too. Thankfully he is 4 now and has stopped all that a while back.

So, not all toddlers bite and yes, if yours does you DO need to watch all the time there are other little kids around. May not be enough but you can't walk away.

YANBU - My daughter DOESN'T bite - as far as I know. She HAD been bitten twice by the same child at nursery. I'm happy that the parents and the nursery are working on it - children will bite and if you follow them around all the time they will not have an opportunity to learn restraint.

Thecoalition, so the friends ds should just be a tool to aid the biter in learning restraint

If someone allowed their child to repeatedly bite mine and then said it was okay as their child needed to learn restraint, I would hit the roof. Believe me, it would not be pleasant.

I would be more tolerant if the parent got off their arse and sorted the biting child out.

No - that presumes that the child is a designated biting object, which is not the case . No one is suggesting not telling the child off. One of the risks of being with people who do not have developed social boundries is that you might get bitten. To expect the parents of a child to be able to guarantee that the child will NEVER bite is ridiculous.

My DS used to pull other children's hair and I had to watch him like a hawk and follow him around the place, but he would be too quick for me sometimes and get his hand in there. And sometimes if the other child's hair was long it would be impossible to free his grip I would have to slap his wrists to try and release them. As you can imagine, I was despised by other parents.

In the end I kept him away from other children until he started playschool, by which time he had settled down. He's now 9 and a model pupil (so his teacher tells me!).

Look guys- this other mum is bringing her son to busygirl's house/inviting busy and her children over full knowing that busy's daughter finds her son particularly bitable, for whatever reason. She presumably knows all about busy's parenting style and the fact that she has a smaller child to consider too but is choosing to continue putting her son in this situation. I would suggest that busy and her mate have a chat about how unfortunate the biting is and discuss whether it's got to a stage where it would be best for their children to be apart for a while, for the sake of everyone's stress levels. If the friend does not want to do this then she is going to have to accept that there continues to be a (fairly high) risk that her son will be bitten, imo.

This is a significantly different situation from when a child is marauding unsupervised round a toddler group biting other kids- in that environment the onus is clearly on the biting child's parent to start monitoring their bitey one v closely, intervening before the chompdown if at all possible, apologising profusely and, probably, going straight home if a bite hits it's target. Luckily enough it appears that busy's daughter enjoys playing with other children far more than with this little boy and doesn't bite them so it's actually a much easier situation to resolve, unless I've read it entirely wrong (sadly not unheard of).

YABU I'm afraid. I wouldn't be 'livid' if one of my DC was bitten once or even twice, but I would be cross if it kept happening, or I had seen it happen many times to other children, and you didn't tackle it.

I know children aren't perfect, and a bit of rough and tumble is to be expected, but I would hope for a more proactive approach from the child's parents.

Don't be silly. Toddlers don't bite, some toddlers do. You make it sound like it's a normal development thing like crawling or cruising. Of course you need to police your child every second if she's hurting other children. Thought that would be obvious. YABUU (You are being unbelievably U).

TheCoalition speaking as a mother who's child does the hitting, kicking etc. I don't agree with your reasoning at all. I think you have to follow them around and make sure they are not hurting others, it's a valuable lesson for them to learn. You can't just leave them to get on with it and expect the bitten child to just accept their fate!! that is ridiculous. sorry. It may take several if not hundreds of times for the child to learn that hitting is not acceptable, you just have to be very persistent and get on at them at all times. What other option do you have really??

I agree with the other posters about the fact that your reaction to your DD's biting is more important than you (seem to) think.

I had a friend whose children (all three of them) were rough and tuble types, one extremely so, and would bite and hit my DS almost as a way of saying hello. His social skills were awful. i found it very difficult to be around them, not just because I was worried about my DS getting hurt, but because the mother was pretty blase about the whole thing, and very ineffectual about disciplining them (she thought they were misunderstood [hmmm]). If she'd been much more 'on it' I would have felt a lot more forgiving.

In the end I stopped allowing them in my house - I'm not kidding - and although i wasn't explicit about why, i think the mother knew).

tumble, not tuble, although tuble sounds kind of interesting

Very very unreasonable. DS went through a biting stage from 18 -24 months and then thankfully stopped biting but was aggressive in other ways until he was about 3. I had to shadow him everywhere, with DD strapped to me in a sling. I only went to places where I knew I could manage the two children. If he did manage to get a nip or a whack in I would be profusely apologetic (often even more apologetic than I felt, but I didn't want people hating me or DS). It was exhausting and isolating and quite hellish, so I feel for anyone in that situation but you can't just let your DD bite children. It is completely irresponsible.

On the plus side, life feels so easy now that I don't have to shadow DS anymore. Being able to have a cup of tea at playgroup is absolute bliss.

lovechoc - so you are always within 6 inches of your child? Even then I don't see how you can prevent it. Biting and hitting happen very quickly.

The OP says that she does discipline the child, I think the friend is unreasonable in expecting the OP to just 'fix' the problem.

Children learn from experience, so they need the opportunity to RESIST the urge to bite someone. And unless you physically have your hands on them at all times (and even sometimes then) they will get that opportunity - and sometimes they won't resist it.

YAB entirely U. And I think you probably know it, deep down, you just don't want to admit it to yourself, as that might imply there's something (maybe) a little bit not quite right with your approach to parenting that results in your DD behaving in this way.

FWIW, not all toddlers bite. Not by a very long way. I've had 2 already, and neither of them has ever bitten another child; so I don't think it's particularly 'normal' behaviour.

I get pissed off when friends don't make more effort to control bad behaviour - so yes, if you know your DD bites then I'm afraid you do need to shadow her, permanently, until she stops doing it. Taking the line of 'oh, its just something she does' is seriously poor form....

(sorry, this particular issue really gets my goat...and I'm hormonal and 4 days overdue with #3 - and if this one turns out to be a 'biter' I will grovel to the OP in 2 years time! )

TheCoalition yes I'm always with him following him around after some of the things he's done in the past. It's bloody exhausting but what other choice do you have??? I can't just let him run riot (and some days he perfectly fine with other children - I shouldn't paint such a bad picture!) and hurt others. I'm the parent and it's up to me to make sure he gets a good telling off if he is close to hurting someone else.

When he starts nursery sessions after the school hols obviously I won't be there to watch his every move, so I can sort of understand what you mean. He is just going to have to get used to 'resisting' hitting/kicking others and hope that the teacher/nursery staff will pick him up on this when it's witnessed - hope the telling off from a non-relative may help him stop because it's bloody mortifying. He hasn't even started the term yet and I'm already picturing in my mind the phone calls I'm going to get before he's even in P1...

Those who have never been in this situation cannot possibly understand how bad the parent feels for the other parent the child who's been hurt. If the shoe was on the other foot, I'd be very upset.

I have 9 dgc of whom 2 have been 'biters'.One only bit once-me!!!When I refused to give her 2 lollies and sain one was 'for another day'.She was 4[a bit old imho]and was so distressed that she bit her own arm in the same way-she has never bitten again and is a sweet,loving 10yr old.
The other,a boy,bit other children often between the ages of 1 and 5[him not victims].This caused a lot of distress to everyone[except him].One day when he was in Reception he bit another boy who retaliated by biting him back so hard it drew blood[first bite frm that child according to his mum].Lots of recriminations all round but dgs has never even attempted to bite anyone since that day-nearly 2 years.
All toddlers do not bite.
I am NOT advocating 'biting them back' just sharing an anecdote.

not all dc bite and hit, mine didn't. If she had, I would have tried to be on top of it. I think really your friends are right to exprect you to be vigilant and to not be happy about it.

auto is right;

" monitoring their bitey one v closely, intervening before the chompdown if at all possible, apologising profusely and, probably, going straight home if a bite hits it's target."

It's the only way. Of course it's difficult to leave when the biting is in your own home, but anywhere else I think you have to leave. Which is shit when you were looking forward to spending time with a friend (I know, I've been there), but needs must.

Most toddlers do go through phases of hitting and/or biting to some degree. And IME a fair few of the parents who claim theirs don't, are in a state of denial.

wow this is all news to me, so I have to agree not all toddlers bite!

If DD does start to bite then both myself & childminder would be taking direct action against it - I think I would probably remove her immediately from any situation where she bit or attempted to bite anyone, have the talk and after a while get her to apologise. If she did it more than a couple of times (ie makes a habit of it) I'd be removing her completely from any play environment so she would become aware that her behaviour is unacceptable AND her environment will be altered if she behaves this was i.e. I'd be letting her know it is completely unacceptable behaviour and if she's going to do it her movements/activities will be restricted as a direct consequence.

I think she'd get the message pretty quickly and move on.

I think it's reasonable to watch her like a hawk for a while so you can respond/intervene asap - and get a very clear message across to her that she will be reducing her own quality of life is she doesn't stop biting.

OP, YAB totally U.

Firstly not all children hit and bite. My nearly 3yr old does not hit or bite and I would be bloody mortified if she did.

If your DD does hit and bite, then it is your responsibility to follow her around and try to ensure she doesn't do it. If she does, then you should remove her from the situation. Crappy I know, but why should others suffer just because you have a child that bites? Imagine the situation reversed and I am sure you would be pretty pissed off if it was your child that was being constantly bitten by another!