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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that giving a 9 year old wine is outrageous?

150 replies

fannybanjo · 15/06/2010 20:59

well my neighbour and her ex-husband (who I informed) don't. Fuckers. This is the same neighbour who beat up her 13 year old step-daughter on Sunday and was arrested and the Police called me and asked me to mind 4 children. Supposedly Social Services were scratching their heads as to what to do with them. She was then released with a caution.

I am slowly losing faith with Child Protection systems in this country.

OP posts:

cory · 16/06/2010 08:00

FOr those who think it is outrageous to let any child have a sip of alcohol- what about Holy Communion? I was confirmed at the age of 13 (would probably have been earlier in some churches) and went regularly to church and took communion after that, which does involve small measures of alcohol. It hasn't turned me into a raging alcoholic.

pointissima · 16/06/2010 08:08

We allow our nine year old a sip from time to time; and I don't think anyone here is saying that they allow their children much more than that. I can't see how the odd sip is in any way shocking

We don't want alcohol to be exciting "forbidden fruit" and we want him to understand that he should be discerning. By the time he's 13 or 14 I would allow a small glass with dinner but there is no age at which alcopops etc will be acceptable

Morloth · 16/06/2010 08:20

DS1 (6) is allowed small sips if we are having a drink and has been since he was old enough to ask.

Same way DH and I were raised. Neither of us get drunk. I did get properly drunk once when I was about 25, I was sick and it was yuck, not done it since.

If my kids grow up with the same attitude to alcohol that we have, I will be quite happy.

thesecondcoming · 16/06/2010 09:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cory · 16/06/2010 09:15

Have to admit if I had alcoholics in the family, I would probably be far more cautious in my approach (no sips).

MumNWLondon · 16/06/2010 09:18

Depends how much. A sip is fine, even a small glass (less 100ml) with a meal i think is fine too. A sip of spirits not acceptible IMO. As others say legal from age 5.

fyimate · 16/06/2010 09:32

I would never give my children alcohol, and as much as my DP is a pushover with our DD I VERY much doubt he'd allow her to have any wine.
But from browsing over MN over the months, I get the impression people are alot more laid back with their kids now, there are things on here that I would never do with my child but MNer's would and think its fine.
I'm not saying they are wrong but IMO I wouldnt do what most of them would.
Back to the post though, I think the legal age being 5 is just crazy. How can any amount of alcohol be any good for a 5yo?!

cory · 16/06/2010 09:42

I don't think it's about "now", as in things have changed from 30 years ago. My ILs were fine with letting dh have a sip of wine when he was a young boy: in fact, my MIL told her mother off for watering down the wine (if he's going to have it, he might as well find out what it tastes like). They were also far more relaxed about teen drunkenness than I could ever be.

My parents let us have things like brandy butter and cakes with brandy cream, but now like to think we never had any alcohol- because more people seem to frown on that now. But they never had alcohol at home. My ILs drank fairly heavily. Dh and I are very similar in our attitude to alcohol: moderate and not very frequent consumption.

pagwatch · 16/06/2010 09:43

WE allowed Ds1 to have a small amount of wine usually mixed with water from about 10 when we were having luncheon or supper.
I am sure I will do the same with DD.

DS1 is nearly 17. He occasionally has a drink at parties but has never come home drunk and finds the attitude of getting drunk for the sake of it monumentally stupid.

He got used to alcohol being in the context of enjoyable relaxed conversation and sociable dining. He is allowed to ask for a drink on a friday or saturday but rarely does. He is also an athlete ( rugby and cricket) and our introducing him to mild alocohol also included many conversations about the negative effects of excess of alcohol both imediately and long term.

I have to say that many of his friends who are told absoloutely no to alcohol and who have very determined parents right up to this late teen age are amongst those who do get really pissed. They have had no 'safe' experience of the effects of alcohol and having had one then have no experinece of noting that that probably is enough.

Having turned out DS1 who is pretty rational and measured I will be quite happy to do this again with DD.

Interestingly for me too , my parents were very strict yet my dad became an alcoholic and two of my siblings have a proble. I drank excessively when I first left home. My DH on the other hand was given the continental sip of wine thing too and he has been drunk half a dozen times in our twenty years together.

I guess family circumstances etc affect your choices. I was wary of giving DS1 a drink just whilst watching tv as I think that is a very bad habit to be introduced to.

libelulle · 16/06/2010 09:45

SKTMS - the thing is, coke and heroin are nothing like alcohol, unless that is you sit around of an evening with your husband having a line of coke with your steak and chips

Like it or not, unlike with drugs, all children grow up seeing adults drinking alcohol in a social context, and they take their cues from how we deal with it. If they see it as a 'banned' grown-up substance, so risky that they aren't even allowed a sniff of it until the age 18, then to me that is sending them entirely the wrong message. What happens when your children turn 18? Aha, they think, I'm an adult now, time to try this extraordinary substance that I've heard so much about. Not exactly conducive to responsible drinking imo.

The idea is not to give children alchohol so that they 'don't want to do it' in future - on the contrary, it is so that they learn how to do it. I want DD to grow up thinking it is an enjoyable part of a social occasion, and that it is not 'dangerous' as long as you only drink a small amount. To be perfectly honest, I couldn't stand wine as a child - it's a bit like coffee and bitter chocolate, I think your taste buds grow into it. But I'm eternally grateful to my parents for having taught me that alcohol isn't a forbidden fruit. I add my name to the list of people who find beer in the cupboard that is 5 years out of date...

libelulle · 16/06/2010 09:47

but I'm with your on the OP's concerns - don't think anyone here is arguing that this family is anything but seriously disfunctional.

mumofthreesweeties · 16/06/2010 09:47

My 11 year old sometimes has a sip of wine or baileys with milk. It's never more than a quarter of a glass. See no problem with it

midori1999 · 16/06/2010 10:26

Without knowing the full facts, I do wonder if the OP's views on allowing children alcohol are clouding her views, although on the face of it it does seem like the children are growing up in an extremely unhealthy not to mention abusive environment

I grew up being allowed the odd small glass of wine with meals at special/family occasions and I can remember havign sips of my Grans 'snowballs' and even being allowed one myself (although I am sure it was mostly lemonade) from a very young age. I won't pretend I have never got drunk in adulthood, but I rarely drink except with meals and quite often will stick to soft drinks. I do feel I have a healthy attitude to alcohol.

My two eldest sons are currently 9 and 14. Both are allowed to have a taste of wine or a small (very small in the 9 year old's case) glass of wine with a meal if we are having it and they ask for it, which is only special occasions. They wouldn't be offered it without having asked though. I have also allowed my older son a very small amount of port or after dinner liquer on such occasions if he hasn't already had wine and my younger son a sip of these. I just don't think it's any big deal, they don't ask for it every time we have it, which isn't often any way and I don't think the tiny amounts they are comsuming are enough to do them any physical damage. So, whilst is doesn't have any benefits, it doesn't harm them either. Just the same as sweets, the odd cup of tea/coffee, cakes, biscuits etc.

Original poster

fannybanjo · 16/06/2010 10:29

My OP was probably slightly erratic, I am so upset over the care of these children, I sobbed a lot of Sunday.

I however do not agree with alcohol being given to a child - that is just my opinion, if you want to give your child alcohol, fair enough.

OP posts:

slhilly · 16/06/2010 10:40

Fannybanjo, can you say why you don't agree with alcohol being given to a child? I am presuming you don't agree with a child being given any alcohol at all, so your objection is not about the physical effects of alcohol. Is that right?

FWIW, being Jewish, I grew up having a sip or slurp of wine on a Friday night from babyhood, and my kids do the same. I guess that the law has now criminalised what remains standard religious practice for many, many Jewish families.

LilMagill · 16/06/2010 10:45

fyimate (the poster, feel like i'm being rude saying FYI, mate!) I'm sure it would come under child neglect/abuse laws or something to be giving a 5 year old large quantities of alcohol. I hope so, anyway. The law just allows parents to use their common sense in giving a tiny taste of what they're drinking. Obviously nobody has to give their child anything, but I think it's good not to criminalise parents who allow the very occasional sip.

Mummy2Bookie · 20/12/2010 22:18

As far as I am aware, you can legally give a child aged over 5 years an alcoholic drink, so technically she hasn't done anything wrong.

BoysAreLikeDogs · 20/12/2010 23:25

ffs

old thread folks

sheesh

MsKLo · 20/12/2010 23:31

She drinks 6 bottles of wine a day? Those poor kids

I would not give my kids alcohol - I might let them have a sip if they asked when they are a bit older but I would say it's an adult thing until they were in their early teens. Yet I don't know if it is right or wrong that other mums give their kids a bit of alcohol - it doesn't feel right to me but it doesn't mean a bit is wrong

PinkIsMyFavouriteCrayon · 21/12/2010 08:27

Differences between my situation and the family OP is describing

No violence in my household
No fear in my household
No alcoholism in my household
No child protection/SS input in my household

Soooo, In their situation, yes, giving the alcohol is probably wrong.

HOWEVER

I am also a member of the growing up with a glass of wine with a Sunday roast gang, and could count on my left hand how many times I've been drunk. It has taught the importance of respecting alcohol, and I fully intend on doing the same thing with DD once she reaches 8/9 years old. (She is 12 months at the minute, probs a bit young even by my standards!

PinkIsMyFavouriteCrayon · 21/12/2010 08:28

oof, it is an old thread!

sleighBELLasringing · 21/12/2010 08:33

I was always allowed a small drink at family dinners/festive occasions as a child, but then my family are italian and it was always seen as the norm. It never did me any harm.

pointissima · 21/12/2010 09:19

Huge difference between allowing a 9 year-old to have a whole glass (or more)and allowing the odd sip or a splash diluted with water.

DS is 9 and we allow a sip (with discussion of grape variety!)or a splash. We also bore on about the evils of getting drunk and the damage that too much alcolhol can do to the liver.

NorwegianMoon · 21/12/2010 10:20

i know a few women who sit around having a line of something with their husbands!

giving a 9yr old a sip of wine is nothing to get worked up about imo

NinkyNonker · 21/12/2010 10:25

I was allowed tasters of wine at that age, teeny glasses of creme de menthe (Ick now!), ginger wine, champagne etc. It taught me that alcohol isn't some mysterious, yummy thing I ought to be desperate for when I was a teen, in fact I hated all of it bar the sweet stuff! Completely de-mystified it for me.

Depends on the child, amount and scenario I think.

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