to think that giving a 9 year old wine is outrageous?

[fannybanjo]

well my neighbour and her ex-husband (who I informed) don't. Fuckers. This is the same neighbour who beat up her 13 year old step-daughter on Sunday and was arrested and the Police called me and asked me to mind 4 children. Supposedly Social Services were scratching their heads as to what to do with them. She was then released with a caution.

I am slowly losing faith with Child Protection systems in this country.

The 'civilised attitude' is not a myth Ladyanonymous, go to any continental city on a Saturday evening and you'll see it in action. I'm not saying teenagers don't get drunk on the continent, or that french adults, say, don't drink too much wine - on the whole they do, you're right. But what you really don't get there is the awful kind of aggressive saturday night collective boozing culture, with a determination to get as pissed as possible as early as possible.

It doesn't happen because from a young age children get used to the idea of alcohol as something that isn't beyond the boundaries of normal, 'civilised' society. I was given watered down wine with special meals from age 6ish - absolutely normal in France. Nowadays I enjoy a drink, but only occasionally. I notice often that I have a very different attitude to alcohol than many of my UK friends.

I used to occasionally be given watered down, wine, beer or sherry with a meal as a child and I am not an alcoholic, in fact i am almost teetotal, dont drink much at all.

Same here piglet. We go months without having any alcohol. We've had beers in the cupboard for about 6 months, not sure if they have a use by date!

The same friends who were boozing behind the local shops still drink over and above the recommended units per week, although they are responsible lovely people and fall into the few glasses of wine each night bracket. They are forever talking about cutting down.

I don't suppose it's necessarily representative though, just my experience.

rofl at "fuckin farse"

Dearfuckinglord, I don't believe this thread. How can any responsible parent think it's ok to give their child alcohol under any circumstances? You can't legally buy alcohol until you're 18, so why would you allow a child under that age to drink? Would you allow them to drive your car, smoke cigarettes, joints? Don't get me wrong, I drink wine, but I'd never let my DD (3) 'taste' it, and let's face it, most of those 'but they do in on the continent' contingent actually live in binge-drinking Britain. Whether your child becomes an alcohol abuser depends on many factors, being allowed to drink underage doesn't really come into it. So, op, no, YANBU, and particularly as the person you are talking about has physically abused a child. I share your concern about SS, it breaks my heart to think of those poor children. Sadly, I don't think governmental bodies are going to get any better anytime soon, and will probably have the funding whipped out from under their arses in a few days anyhow, which will at least give them a valid excuse for being shit.

For the reasons stated in the posts SKTMS.

Did you read the thread?

I spent part of my childhood in Italy (and contrary to my MN name ) I basically learnt then how to respect alcohol. Because those lunchtimes and dinner times around the table meant that we learnt that it was ok to have a glass, without wanting more and more and more. And we were allowed to have a taste, or watered down wine when older (tiny amounts though!)

The last time I went back (when I was 18) the contrast between my cousin's friends drinking (ie one maybe two drinks in an evening) and the extreme drinking that goes on over here was astounding to me.

But. This was being taught about responsible 'drinking' (which in my book isn't drinking per se, as a glass with lunch and dinner is just fine) in and environment where you had a glass as an addition, to be savoured. Not to then keep refilling the glass, because the aim was to get pissed.

So in the circs you describe yanbu. But please don't think that giving any 9yo a sip is outrageous, because in a responsible way it may (may) not be a bad thing

I would much rather have a lovely glass of ice cold coke or a fruit juice ahhh hits the spot, i love fizzy drinks .

LOL sktms, get off the fence will you?

SKTMS I dont agree sorry I just dont.I was one of those poor child given watered down alcohol as a child, I am fine as are all those kids on the continent. It fostered a healthy attitude to alcohol and did not treat it as something to be scared of or feared like we are doing here. I have beers in my cupboard from when my dd was born 3 years ago, shock! I had to chuck them as it was a bit

Dont see those kids across the contininent who have had a little watered down wine with their meal binge drinking in the street, being sick, violence etc and ending up with liver disease before 30

yes, it never did me any harm

SKTMS yes I would let my 9yr old dd drive my car in a controlled environment - if she could reach the pedals .
It is no different from go karting / dodgems etc or driving on an airfield under 17. I learnt to drive long before age 17 and it did me no 'harm'

We were brought up having the odd sip of wine, at nine we had a quarter of a small glass tumbler of wine, never finished it though. if we wanted to try a sip of beer we could, a sip.It was never a "banned" thing or a "bad" thing

Weve grown up respecting alcohol, yes we've been drunk but VERY rarely, we can go out, have a drink or 2 then have soft drinks whilst everyone else is getting pissed. I genuinely believe that out parents played a part in this by letting us try it and grow up with it

DH "allows" DS (nearly 4) to put the car in gear, hold the steering wheel, sit on his knee and "drive" the car up the drive. God we're terrible parents aren't we?

oh no gaelicsheep thats shocking . my dad used to do that with me when i was little.

Oh my goodness elf and safety would have a fit the things we were allowed to do as kids in the past and not now. like playing conkers, climbing trees, taking sips of wine he he

Ladyanonymous I will bring up my children to appreciate good wine, proper good quality beer and cider etc. . Alcohol isn't just about getting drunk for everyone, it's about the taste of all these different drinks developed over history by different cultures. That is what's largely lacking in this country - a lot of kids see their parents drinking glass after glass of any old rubbish "to wind down" or even encouraging their children to drink to excess (I have seen so much of this especially among well-to-do middle class parents, all 'ho ho, aren't hangovers hilarious, I suppose you'll be getting plastered since it's your birthday, here's a crate of Bacardi Breezers'). The drink is just spoken of in terms of its effects, and that's a shame.

So, I agree that that kind of upbringing is probably not conducive to a healthy attitude, but I will add my name to the list of posters brought up continental-style who grew up to have no interest in binge drinking and use alcohol more often in cooking than to drink. I didn't grow up seeing my parents 'use' alcohol, I saw them occasionally appreciate it like any other drink or food, and never once seen either of them remotely tipsy. I really think that's the key difference.

Good post LilMagill.

I never once saw my parents drunk or even tipsy throughout my whole childhood. My mum has one G&T of an evening and my dad is a malt whisky enthusiast. It is all about the attitude of the parents and the context. And tbh if they're that immature about alcohol there's probably a lot else wrong as well which is why their kids grow up being such tw*ts.

Ha Piglet

Me: milking cows, walking for miles by myself aged 7, looking after newborn bro when aged 9, climbing, jumping and generally running free.

All interspersed with lunchtimes and diners where I was allwed a sip of wine.

I obviously looked like I needed wime when I came back from my day's adventures....

Lordy, was just wondering who SKTMS was, then realised it was me and I should be paying attention! Righto, still not going to let my DD 'taste' wine, totally disagree with it. Alcohol and children just don't mix. To me, it's a bit like saying 'let my DD try coke/heroin so they won't want to do it in future', shocking! But that's just my opinion. Flambe away folks. I want my DD to stay a child for as long as possible. Anyway, what seems to be lost here is the step-mother beating the child up, just think if that was your child she was doing it to. The op makes me really sad, to think there are children out there who slip through the net cos they're that little bit older. 13 is a terribly impressionable age, poor little girl. The 'step mother' beating her up? That's awful, poor girl.

It's not unreasonable to be against giving children alcohol, but YABU to call it "outrageous". It's legal and, as described in many posts here, there's much to be said for responsibly teaching children to appreciate wine and beer.

My parents did the continental thing, too. Despite the well-documented crapness of my upbringing and subsequent alcohol problem, I have NEVER drunk to get drunk & neither have my sibs. So I'm also in favour.

I wasn't allowed any alcohol until I was 18, although by 16 I was getting hold of it from older friends (I was at university at 16). And I spent a lot of years drinking to get drunk, and I still have something of an alcohol problem.

But why we're debating whether it's okay to give a child half a glass of watered down wine in response to an OP about the children of an alcoholic mother, who are being beaten, escapes me.