to be unsure if I should report friend to SS?

[custardismyhamster]

Friend is 23, has dyspraxia (and other things I think as have read up on dyspraxia and it's just difficulties with co-ordination if I'm right, so she may not run as well as others etc)

She has a DD, 8 months.

Her DD is not cared for very well and I am worried. Whenever I visit her DD is passed to me and I end up caring for her. If I don't, she gets ignored-so today she was sat on floor playing with a toy, she fell and banged her head (was fine!) and cried so I left it for a few minutes, my friend ignored her so I picked her up, cuddled her, then distracted with funny faces-her DD laughed and forgot about her fall bless her.

Anyway the little girl doesn't seem to ever be properly clean (not as in oh she has baby food on her clothes-she is a baby they get messy! but as in she stinks-literally after clean nappy on etc, her hair FEELS greasy and she smells. She also has terrible exema and cream from gp, friend doesnt put it on her as 'makes my hands feel greasy')

She is also never spoken to, or interacted with by my friend, at least not when I am there.

Friend never seems to buy her anything she needs-had no cot until about 7 months old etc, but yet can afford pauls boutique bags and mac makeup for herself...hmm.

AND friend told me today that to make money (she doesn't work, but lives at home with her mother, who does work and she isn't paying any board even) that she is sleeping with men for money-in her house, in front of her DD.

This has worried me and I feel it's the final straw-should I now as a concerned onlooker be speaking to social services or similar, as am concerned about little girls welfare?

Any advice really appreciated guys as don't know what to do for the best but don't want little girl to suffer

It is the job of a case conference to decided if a child is being abused or neglected. People who report concerns are only doing that - reporting concerns. It doesn't mean they are saying someone IS being abused or neglected just that there is something that is worrying them, or the child seems withdrawn when previously it was fine, or the injury was a bit suspicious.

That is all. Then social services decided whether to follow it up, then if they do they make an assessment - is this a 'child in need' i.e does the child and the family need support, for example a parenting class, a nursery place etc etc. Or are there grounds to think that there may be abuse or neglect in which case they go down a different route - the child at risk procedures where further assessment can be made and if necessary a case meeting called where all relevant parties, including the parents will be invited and the issues discussed. Then and only then can they be made subject to a child protection plan or other action taken.

Of course if it is clear there is a risk right from the off, children can be removed with a court order.

It's not as straightforward as it looks. I would suggest that anyone with concerns - acts on them. They don't decide the next action, they only flag things up and professionals make that decision.

There was a tragic case in Yorkshire last year where a 4 year old was starved to death in the upstairs of a pub while her parents worked in it below. Many many pub customers expressed the view that they 'thought something was wrong' that the girl was seldom seen etc but NONE of them acted on their concerns.

oblomov - you always post on these trheadsd with your own experiences and whilst in some cases that is a great great thing, in others it is really quite damaging.

Whilst you are speaking from the point of veiw of someone who was wrongly reported there are professionals here who speak with the authority and experience of knowing what is or isn't abuse/neglect etc.

please. im not telling you to stay away from these threads. but i am saying that for your own sake, maybe you should refrain from some.

having read the op i would say that yes this is a clear case of neglect and would warrant SS involvment.
what ss decide to do having investigated fully and seen the entire picture is not for me to say, but yes. you should call them OP.

And it doesn't matter if the concerns are ludicrous and a total waste of everyone's time?

I think that oblomov's posts have been pertinent and sensible TBH.

At the moment we have a situation where some organisations are reporting people willy-nilly. Surely it is obvious that is not a sensible or desirable approach.

I don;t think it is a bad thing at all to have people who counteract the idea that "if you have any doubts at all, SS are your first port of call, if there's nothing wrong then no harm done". It is useful to have someone point out that actually it is a big thing to do, and should not be done lightly, and on spurious grounds.

Gigantaur, i think your post about my contributions being damaging, is ....... trying to think of appropriate words ... unfair.
and you are telling me to stay away from threads. i should refrain from posting ? no one has said that to me before.
In fact I'm not sure I've ever seen that posted on Mn before.

And in fact they are reporting people when they have never met them, or even clapped eyes on their children.

Surely no-one thinks that is a good thing.

Please can you explain what i have posted that is very extreme. personal or nasty ? ridiculous ?
damging ?
please justify that.

Am I over-reacting here. Please can someone stand up for me here. Gigantaur, you say that i post on alot of ss threads ? and you think i shouldn't ?

oh. now i get it.

im sorry. i clearly worded my initial post badly. i really didn't mean to cause offence.

What i was trying to say (and probably will still fail) is that this is an issue that is clearly still very raw for you. I think that your own experience has an obvious bearing on your opinion. It would be unnataural if it didn't.

Whilst i agree that people should be reminded that someone parenting in a way that is different to your own does not make them a bad parent or worthy of a refferal to ss.
But if you have real concerns over a childs welbeing then it is not down to you as a layman to decide whether it is abuse or not. that is the job for an experienced, trained professional.

You can of course post on any thread you like but i see you being drawn into these arguments time and time again and i just worry that it is bringing your own histroy back to you each time. It concerns me that by continuing to contribute to these threads it is preventing you moving forward and "getting past" what happened to you.

but hey, i don't know you and could be, probably am, talking out of my arse

"it is not down to you as a layman to decide whether it is abuse or not"
every other Mn'er who posts on threads about abuse/ smacking/neglect/ dp who doesn't treat them very well, seems perfectly entitled to state whether they think something is abuse or not.
nearly everyone on this thread, mostly 'laymen' have given their opinion.
People feel strongly when they think there has been injustice.
I'm not the only one. why are you singling me out ?
Why don't you say the same to Trinity, ISNT or Leonie or anyone else ?

Mamazon. why is this all so personal. and specifically directed towards me ?

Also,

"Beign put under inordinate stress
Having people come into your home and judge you, with you knowing that they have the power to recomend removal of your children
Having reports written about you that are inaccurate, and there is no means of recourse
Feeling as if you have lost control of your family situation
Losing all faith in "the authorities" to the point that you will be extremely loath to contact them again ever expect in extreme circumstances
People develop problems with depression
They develop problems with anxiety
They lose faith in their ability to parent their children
Relationships between parents are strained, I am sure that families sometimes split under the pressure

That is actually quite a high price to pay."

Do you know anyone personally who has suffered chronic violence or other abuse as a child? The price they pay is much much higher.
I think if someone has serious concerns about the welfare of a child, they should definitely always report it to a HV or SS or NSPCC, or talk to the school, do something, act.

No one is disputing thta Jenbot.
But ISNT children weren't subjected to chronic abuse. there was no abuse. none. what-so-ever.

we rae not stuupid. we know thta children need to be protecetd from chronic abuse. but thats not hwta happened to ISNT, is it ?
there was nothing chronic about it. just a total over-reaction.

if someoen admitted thta to ISNT, that might help. if they admitted thta they got it wrong. it was an over-reaction. thta it shouldn't have happened.
she was accused of abuse and/or neglect. but she didn't.

only somoen very odd would argue thta children shouldn't be protected form chronic abuse.

but likewise you can't go around aqusing loving mums of abuse. its just not on.

But giantuar is right. I don't know why i bother. I keep posting on these subjects to try and make people like jenbot, just to make her consider, for one second, what a referal, does to an innocent mum and what the person refering is actually trying tot achieve. i'm convincing no one. per usual. must stop.

its not personal Oblomov and my use of the word "your" in the sentance you quoted was more a grand sweping "your" as in everyone that feels they should report.

As i have said, whilst i understand and sympathise with your own experience it really isn't relevent here.

Whilst i applaud your efforts to remind peolpe not to be so vain as to believe that anything short of their own perfect parenting desrves reporting i do feel that it is not helping you to keep going through it.

By all means if someone posts saying i just saw someone refuse to allow the Dc a new bike despite it not being their birthday should i cxall ss, then yes please do offer your advice and input as to why such a ridiculous allegation wouuld be seriously damaging.
BUt i think you would agree that the details in teh op were significant enough to warrant a call to SS and therefore there is little need for you to have to go through the stress of re living your own experience

Of course it is stressful to be wrongly considered a threat to your children.
But you have to weigh up the damage inflicted here. In the case of a family where sya.tyhe mother is wrongly accused of neglect then I guess it would bwe one assessment in the form of a home visit and then a discharge.
Although I understand that this can be traumatic for the family involved, I think it is better to do so if you have any doubts or information that you feel may harm the child.

SW do have to follow up anyone reported to them. It is better to be safe than sorry

And I do believe it is neglectful to bring strangers home and have sex with them for money. It puts the child in a vulnerable position therefore she needs protecting

But if IIRC IMSNT didn't have her children removed. She wasn't found to be an unfit mother after ..one visit I think it was (please correct me If I am wrong)
Therefore the mother doesn't have to worry if she is providing adequate care

I have always manintained that there was 'cause for concern', re OP.

lets accuse you of abuse mrs ruffalo and see how you like it. better safe than sorry. no harm done.

I was waiting for that. Of course it would be awful but what else are sw supposed to do?

if someone saw me lose my temper and scream and shout at ds in teh street i would be pleased if they had the good sense to call Ss.

It wouldn't worry me as i know that i am providing a good happy home for DS.

And i HAVE had to be investigated by SS. it was due to domestic violance and despite having thrown xp out theywanted to see how i was keeping the dc safe.

Yes it was traumatic and frustrating that i had done the right thing and yet still had to go through teh motions. but nothing was done. no further action needed.

It helps to think that even though it can be a worry at first, you know that if they are this diligent with you, a good mother, you know that those who are being abusive will be dealt with more robustly.

you should try and re think the way you look at your experience. instead of "why me" think of it as a positive, that it proves that the SS in your area are good and will ensure teh safety of children in need

Good post gigantaur.

Surely the whole point of public referrals to SS is that they don't know the facts but are reporting just in case, and then the SS will follow that up professionally, with any further action being taken as needed?

Oblomov asks what is 'suspected abuse' - I don't know, but presumably there's more to reporting to SS than saying 'hello Mrs B across the road is suspected of abuse goodbye'.

Presumably the person dealing with the referral would ask exactly what the grounds for concern actually were, and then make a judgement as to whether or not that warranted any follow up?

My brother phoned SS to report his ex at one point, and the matter went no further than the initial phone call. I think the person dealing with it worked out that my brother was simply seeking to get back at his ex, and that his concerns (his DSs absences from school) were initially a school matter not SS.

So it is not the case that every referral results in somebody being 'accused of abuse'.

Altkin no I don't think my daughter's injury should have been referred by the professionals who did so.

Only a very stupid person would imagine for one minute that a parent of a child with a severe bleeding disorder would ever lay a hand on them sexually or physically. Never mind SS, they'd be up on a murder charge.

But I would like to know, is an injury of that nature an automatic referral or not? And does it apply to boys? I have yet to meet a man who hasn't bashed his testicles at least once.

When I was researching the reasons for the referral I read that there had to be very very specific reasons given. An injury of that nature was not one of them.

Oh and given that I was on the phone to the hospital within ten minutes of the accident happening and actually at a hospital within half an hour and dd being seem immediately (she has direct access) no it is not reasonable to assume that I might have drummed into her a lie about what had happened, or confused her.

No room for common sense at all it seems, but I am desperately sorry for the child this happened to

"So it is not the case that every referral results in somebody being 'accused of abuse'. "
but thats not true morriz is it ? the reason why someone refers to ss in the first place is becasue they have "concerns that the child is being abused". you either refer for reasons of abuse or neglect. or both. so the child is being abused or neglected. so if your child is refered to ss by a health professional. its becasue they have concerns thta the child is being abused. thus they are accusing you of abuse. or someone is abusing the child. so doesn't the acqusation of abuse start at that moment.

If you say to a mum, i think your child is in danger. i think there are concerns. there is a possibility of abuse. then YOU ARE BEING ACUSED OF ABUSE.

No ?