AIBU in thinking that tax-payers shouldn't fund private schools?

[larks35]

Several private schools in my area are going for Academy status, which will bring them public money, while they can still continue to be selective and charge parents for their child's education.

This is an absolute travesty IMO. I always hated the Academy idea, but the Labour government thought it would help out schools in deprived areas. Now, the Tory/Lib govt. are actively encouraging private schools to take up the status and therefore, those of us who cannot afford to send our kids to the lovely private school up the road are contributing to their funding. Grrrr, it is pissing me off.

Unless they went to state school themselves, of course MisSal... Don't we pay for our own education retrospectively?

As I said cornsilk there should be selection so that each child can benefit from working at a level/subject suited to them - e.g. for some children apprenticeships may be more suitable than continuing at school (this is the case with one of my dsds - she is much happier working than doing a levels, the other will go to uni and that suits her)

The problem with trying to make everyone fit to one level/mould is that it doesn't suit anyone whether clever (academically) or not

getting a bit off the track of the op now!

Bechka, not suprised you loved it, it is a great school, and now free

I was looking into aprivate school the other day. it has 500 and odd pupils and over half of them are on assisted places. Why would that not entitle them to charitable status?

I stand corrected ArcticWind and NarkyPuffin (great name). So maybe what I'm moaning about is actually the best thing for equality in education?!?

At what age would you decide a child's future, lindsell?

so children that don't 'achive' do apprenticeships? What about children with SEN? Under that model Einstein would have been doing an apprenticeship.

have had wine -not sure if that's correct either...

cornsilk, by the lowest common denominator I guess you mean those who cannot afford to top up on basic education?

what happens to these people when they can;t afford housing - the state steps in

when they can't afford food+clothes, the state steps in \

etc etc I can't imagine anyone would want to remove the safety nets!

..and for info you said "Well, they would take him if he didn't have SEN and would bring their exam results average down, therefore losing them business this coming September."

..the fact is private schools provide some excellent SEN support. That's why lots of people duck out of state care if they can afford to, as they want a private school that can cater for SEN.

Private schools cater for different abilities, some are academic, some sporty and some SEN unlike one size fits all bulf standard comps.

Sounds a bit like Cyril Burt to me..

bulf?????

those bl**dy SA vuvezelas have got to my brain!!

Hmm, fair enough argument tethersend.

I went to state, and have no school aged children, so not coming in here to be difficult for the sake of it.

It's just that I can partly see the problem of not enough good state schools, and not enough money to build new schools at this exact moment. I wonder whether this move would at least allow more children whose parents can't pay entry into better schools until this financial mess is sorted.

Because whilst the ideal is better state schools for everyone, I'm not sure that's a practical solution right now, and I very much doubt whether millions would be spent on new schools now, even if it messes up a whole generation. It's awful really.

I don't think you can argue that you should only pay for what you use though, it works both ways.

"..the fact is private schools provide some excellent SEN support. That's why lots of people duck out of state care if they can afford to, as they want a private school that can cater for SEN."

Depends on the SEN, lil- do you know of any fee-paying schools who accept children with ESBD?

Corn just looked at your link and is full of unsubstantiated nonsense...look at the last line.

..The real problem with selective education is that it limits most children's learning environment and stifles their development before it's even begun.

very emotive and dramatic but what exactly does he mean..give an example please??? is he saying the state school my sister went to because she failed her 11+ stifled her development

and those examples of 11+ questions are nonsense . they don't look like that at all.

Going back to MisSalLaneous. We all have to buy into the state. Many of us don't have children, don't get ill that often, are not unemployed, don't go to uni etc. I do think we have a civil duty to pay into the coffers that support those people.

For the good of all we live in a state that gives us free healthcare, free education and I think we should celebrate this. Unfortunately, some seem to think that it is worthwhile having a fee-paying alternative to what the state privides and I think that this undermines the ethos of equality in state provision.

That was the first link I found - the point is that intelligence is not fixed and can not be assessed at 11.

lil, I thought 'unsubstantiated nonsense' was the basis of your argument?

I will reiterate my request for you to expand on how the current system doesn't work.

Depends on the SEN, lil- do you know of any fee-paying schools who accept children with ESBD?

yup corn, here's one www.acorncare.co.uk/

and there's plenty more if you look.

Err... I'm tethersend, not corn

tether..if the current system works why do we have the need for private schools? why do middle calss people who don't have inheritances and grand mansions, why do they forkl out thousands of pounds each year on education that could be free??because the current state system is only sometimes up to the job, depending on where you live.

look at my last link - why would you deny that place to someone who has an SEN child...does everyone have to accept substandard education because ootherwise its 'not fair'?

"Under that model Einstein would have been doing an apprenticeship." - so now's not the time to mention he quit school at the age of 15 then?

well if a child isn't academic and isn't talented musically/sporty/art etc then surely teaching them a practical/vocational skill that will enable them to get a job is a good thing? Surely helping them achieve something is better than making them feel they have to pass exams/go to uni which they're not actually interested in/able to do. That's my point about selection it works both ways. Not having selection and pretending everyone is equal does not imo help anyone.

SEN is a different point and as others have said many private schools actually cater much better for a child who is not the "norm" whether that is because they have SEN or are particularly talented in any field.

I agree intelligence is not fixed, nobody claimed it was afaik. But e.g. with the old grammar/secondary modern system people could transfer to the grammar if they did well at say 13/14. Not claiming that was perfect by any means but a darn sight better imo than the complete mess we have at the moment. Hopefully the increase in academy schools will improve the situation.

Are you sure academy's can be selective ? We have two locally and there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to the admission criteria, it's not exam based or catchment.
And all the staff left who used to teach in the private school , it's unrecognizable other than the facilities.

'if the current system works why do we have the need for private schools? why do middle calss people who don't have inheritances and grand mansions, why do they forkl out thousands of pounds each year on education that could be free??because the current state system is only sometimes up to the job, depending on where you live.'
Not where I live lil.The state schools in my area do really well.