AIBU in thinking that tax-payers shouldn't fund private schools?

[larks35]

Several private schools in my area are going for Academy status, which will bring them public money, while they can still continue to be selective and charge parents for their child's education.

This is an absolute travesty IMO. I always hated the Academy idea, but the Labour government thought it would help out schools in deprived areas. Now, the Tory/Lib govt. are actively encouraging private schools to take up the status and therefore, those of us who cannot afford to send our kids to the lovely private school up the road are contributing to their funding. Grrrr, it is pissing me off.

As someone else who has worked in private and state schools I agree totally with Hobbitmama.How DARE the tory government propose to give money to private schools after the slagging off that they have delivered to the labour government for spending money to help the poorest people in society. They don't NEED the money. It's outrageous.

"..But I cannot get into my local catholic school cos I'm not catholic - I am funding that school - how is that any better than the charity staus of a private school."

lil, by your own admission, this system is unfair- why on earth would you want to replicate it?

tether what irks me is we live under a capitalist society, the communist one where everyone is supposed to be equal didn't work when it had its go in the 1900's. Yet when it comes to education everyone goes nuts about the same capitalist concept that they live the rest of their lives by.

this country has NEVER been a communist country or anything remotely like it!

The private schools I know of don't make any profit. They pay the teachers, consumables, buildings upkeep etc and charge parents as little as they can because they mostly arent filthy rich. They probably shouldn't be charities but the labour govt wasn't offering any sensible way out of this anachronistic position.

True enough, we live under the umbrella of capitalism (I don't believe a truly communist society has ever existed BTW- and it was in 1917, not the 1900s); but how far do we take this? Do we let people die on the street because they cannot afford medical attention? If not, why not?

A truly capitalist society does not fund private businesses with taxpayers' money.

I am reeling at this - Academies will be able to charge parents? Does that (theoretically) apply to existing state Academies? Regardless of that, wtf are they doing putting taxpayers money into private education at a time when they are talking of the biggest financial crisis in generations.

Btw there are lots of people who are furious about faith too. I don't think taxes (which are paid by everyone)should fund any school
that discriminates against any child on the basis of religion or their parents income.

toty I know! the govnt has privatised lots of sectors that it once used to run, e.g. the utilities. Most of these have been a success so why can't education be run similarly?

Define 'success', lil- better service for the 'customer', or bigger profits for the companies?

tether just take one look at the public sector. People don't joke about its wastefulness, ridiculous beaureacracy and inefficiencies for nothing.

Anyone who has worked for the civil service knows how slowly it grinds and how much profit works as an incentive for efficiency.

If we can apply it successfully to the ridiculous beaureacracy and inefficiencies of state sector, thta wold be to the benefit of everyone. the current system doesn't work- time for an overhaul?

..and the best way to get rid of private schools is to make the alternative rise to the same standard.

"People don't joke about its wastefulness, ridiculous beaureacracy and inefficiencies for nothing."

Err... I'm not sure people joke about it at all, lil. Until this government seized upon the public sector as the whipping boy for the mistakes made by the banking industry, nobody mentioned it, ever. Well, perhaps in your house.

I am beginning to hope you are being deliberately inflammatory- please tell me you don't really believe that profit shite?

Ok, let's imagine a system where all schools are private businesses- what happens when your DCs school goes into liquidation because it has been run by people who know nothing about how to run schools? Oh, and they've taken your money with them. Oh, and the nearest school who will take your child is 15 miles away. Well, they would take him if he didn't have SEN and would bring their exam results average down, therefore losing them business this coming September. Except that its term now begins in July, as they need to compete with other schools.

Schools should never be run as profit making businesses IMO- too great a risk of conflict of interests.

"The current system doesn't work"- Please expand on this. How doesn't it work? Do you have evidence of this, or are you believing more spin?

But acadamies do not charge fees - bristol cathedral school and colstons are free now and so will st ursulas be and it is certainly needed the local secondary schools in bristol are dreadful. Turning these into acadamies is much cheaper than building a new school like redland green which you can only get into if you can afford £500k plus for a house in the cathcment area - hardly fair!!!

The parents of those children going to private schools are not only paying a lot for their own children's education they are also paying for the state schools which they do not use. If private schools did not exist then there would need to be considerably more state schools which would need more funding. Therefore overall the average tax payer has a much better deal out of there being private schools than there not.

Imo you need selection in education - not every one is equal. Some will benefit from an academic education, some a practical one, some musical, some sport etc. I would much rather my tax was spent on increasing the number of good quality schools (whether academies/private/whatever) in the country than wasted on trying to force everyone to pretend that everyone else is equal which basically means bringing everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

The only way to make state schools rise to the 'same standard' as private schools is to ensure that every child has a family rich and interested enough to pay for their education.

Any ideas?

Heifer, I went to that school and loved it!

There seems to be a bit of confusion about the difference between private and public schools on this thread. Private schools are profits making businesses and can't be charities. Private schools pay VAT like any other business.

Public schools are not-for profit entities and can be charities. Like any other charity they can make a profit (which has to be used for the entities charitable purpose) and get preferential VAT status (as well as other tax advantages). The promotion of education has been a charitable purpose for basically as long as there has been charity law (up there with the relief of poverty, and you don't see many people arguing that because the state provides benefits charities for the relief of poverty should lose their charitable status).

Plenty of people really sacrifice a great deal to give their kids the best opportunity they can by sending their kids to a non-state school. My parents drove a 20 year old car, never went on holiday except to stay with family (in the UK), never went out on date nights, and generally sacrificed what could have been a comfortable standard of living to put my siblings and I though school, and we weren't unusual. To think that just because someone can scrape together the money for fees doesn't mean that they are somehow super-rich.

In any event, as I understand it with Academy status (as with the proposed new free schools) you can't be fully selective - a former non-state school taking Academy status has to comply with the same code as any other Academy.

tethers - I've nothing to add but my support for everything you've said.

ArticWind is right.

ACADEMIES DON'T CHARGE FEES

www.bccs.bristol.sch.uk/news-a-information/press-releases/18-bristol-cathedral-school-moves-closer-t o-becoming-an-academy.html

I understand everyone's gripe with current system re: religious schools selectivity etc. BUT what worries me is that we as tax-payers are going to contribute to an eduation system that is the privelege of the rich to enjoy. Yes, I imagine they will have to take some non-feepaying pupils (as most have done under the charity status) but they will be allowed to be selective with this. So only the gifted will get a non-fee paying place, but parents will still have to pay for uniform, extra-curricular activities etc.

so what happens to the lowest common denominator then lindsell?What is their future?

Yes, YABU. Unless you want to give a rebate to private schooling parents, who is also funding state schools.

"... who are..." I should go back to school myself, apparently.

lindsell - you said 'Imo you need selection in education - not every one is equal. ' what do you mean by that?

I haven't seen my GP for years - can I have a rebate then?