AIBU in thinking that tax-payers shouldn't fund private schools?

[larks35]

Several private schools in my area are going for Academy status, which will bring them public money, while they can still continue to be selective and charge parents for their child's education.

This is an absolute travesty IMO. I always hated the Academy idea, but the Labour government thought it would help out schools in deprived areas. Now, the Tory/Lib govt. are actively encouraging private schools to take up the status and therefore, those of us who cannot afford to send our kids to the lovely private school up the road are contributing to their funding. Grrrr, it is pissing me off.

trixie - I'm thinking more of up to GCSE than A-level as at that stage it's so narrow there is no core curriculum as such. I still maintain these subjects are not especially hard. We just don't teach them early enough or well enough and have created a self-perpetuating system that allows ignorance in these subjects to be socially acceptable.

I do think you probably need a degree to teach these subjects at A level - but not a PhD, which I'd consider a pre-requisite to being called a Physicst - I don't know if it's the same in economics.

Xenis - why should someone who has nothing to do with a private school be proud of them?

Haven't read the whole thread, but the poster who has direct experience of this said that her DDs school is now an academy, and no longer a GDST ('private') school, therefore she no longer pays fees - so surely there is the answer to those who object to taxpayers money funding 'private' schools, one fewer 'private' schools at a stroke! So why aren't all the socialsits leaping up and down in gratitude to this gvt for reducing the number of 'private schools'

LeQueen - they don't pay twice. That is not how tax works - you aren't buying specific services. You are paying for a functioning state. You then vote for a government that decides how to spend the states money.

Otherwise you would only pay towards education if and when you had children at school.

"The infants and juniors are now full with 20 in a class (2 classes each year) and the seniors are now 100 each year group."

Typical bloody Tories - I wish I could send my children to a school with only 20 in a class at full capacity. I should bloody well think their results should be good with only 20 children in a class.

This is exactly the sort of thing I knew that idiot Michael Gove would come up with.

If there is extra money to help develop schools it should be going to the struggling inner town/city schools with 32+ in infant/junior classes like the ones I teach in Swindon. Not to prop up wealthy private schools which produce children with a warped sense of reality that are unable to relate to their 'state school' peers (Im sorry but must speak as i find).

I doubt that now it'a an Acadamy it will be allowed to maintain those ratios.

The Coalition please go and read the syllabi for these subjects. What constitutes hard in your book? Abstract concepts that require agility of thought? An ability to read and understand extremely dense original material from the 3rd Century BC onward? A ability to utilise A level standard maths in order to interpret graphs and apply the evidence to an essay question? Sounds pretty hard to me. You can't get away with just memorising stuff and regurgitating it in the exam, not for a top grade. We are not talking about that P4C philosophy for infants stuff here.
Sorry, way off the original topic I know but I have spent a long time trying to explain that RS and Philosophy are rigorous academic subjects and get fairly offended when they are dismissed as easy by someone who hasn't actually looked at the content.

That is my post you have highlighted.

Firstly, TheCoalitionNeedsYou - those class sizes are the agreed Academy size. Before the Academy they were much smaller due to shortage of numbers. When it was announced it was thinking of applying for academy status there was uproar from the parents.. (fee paying parents). One of the agreements was that they would not let class sizes be any larger than 20 per class. So that agreement will stay for the foreseeable future.

ClaireyFairy82 - The ironic things is that I left Swindon 2 years ago (after living there all my life) to stop my DD having to attend such schools in Swindon. I know I am lucky to get DD into a school such as this. I know I am lucky to be in a position that we could move away from a town with such poor performing schools (especially secondary).

Have to completely disagree that my DD has a warped sense of being that stops her relating to her state school peers though!

Do you really believe that ALL private school children live in a privileged bubble and don't mix with the 'other' children?!?!

Maybe those that go to public schools should ask for a rebate on their council tax as they are paying towards the state schools hidden somewhere in the concil tax that they are not using.....difficult debate from every side.

alypaly - did you miss all the posts pointing out that is NOT how tax works? We all have to pay taxes. All the money goes to the government. The government then decides how this money is spent. We get our say at the election.

If I choose to use private healthcare, or private schools, or pay for my own security guards, or happen to live on an private (unadopted) road that's my choice - I don't deserve any thanks, much less a tax rebate!

I doubt there is a single person in this country who actually uses every single service funded by their taxes. There are plenty of areas of government spending that don't directly touch my own life.

alypaly - so long as they check before they see a doctor, dentist, lawyer, architect, mechanic, painter, decorator,police officer, firefighter ... the list is endless, whether or not that person was educated at a private or state school, and only take advantage othe the skills of privately educated people! We benefit from the education of others, we do not just benefit from our own education.

trixie123 - I'm not saying they aren't proper subjects, I'm saying they aren't inhererently harder that, say, English. The problem is that our expectations are too low, and we don't start teaching these skills early enough.

It's not the A-level syllabus that is the problem, it's much earlier.

Lil... Where's the uproar over Labour's funding of religious schools? Right here. RRROOOAAARRR!!!

Nothing makes me feel more sick inside than to see

a: UK children being segregated into faith schools from different religions/denominations, so as to create further divide between communities

b: people in many catchment areas forced to send their children to faith schools. Worse still, many have to join up with the parish and go "worship" on Sundays to prove their "christianity" to get into the only half-decent school in their area.

It's all too sad for words and so barbaric, so middle-ages, so Northern Ireland Troubles era.

There is much information here if you're interested in actively fighting the growth of secular schools:
www.secularism.org.uk/religion-in-schools.html

fighting the growth of faith schools... d'oh!

Snobear - is it worth looking at why the faith schools do so well? If they're so good that people feign faith to get into them they must be doing something right?

'Not to prop up wealthy private schools which produce children with a warped sense of reality that are unable to relate to their 'state school' peers (Im sorry but must speak as i find).'

Perhaps their parents send them to private schools in the hope that they will find teachers who can write grammatically, with correct punctuation.

Trixie, any school with a licence to be selective will do well. Any.

trixie - If people feign faith to get in to a faith school then that school will have a much higher proportion of children and parents prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to get into a good school, which will naturally lead to better results.

Heifer - we'll see how long that agreement lasts....

alypaly - how large a rebate would you expect? Let's pretend that there is x% of your tax earmarked for education.

Lets say that's £100 to make the sums easier.

There are about 8,170,714 children at school.

So out of that £100 pounds you are paying 0.01224 pence per child - so by taking a child out of the state system, that is the rebate you would be entitled to.

in fact, lets take a more extreme case.

Lets say you earn £30,000,000 and pay tax at about 50%

Then you pay £15,000,000 in tax.

Assume that 1/3 of Government spending is on Education.

That's £5,000,000.

Against the 8,170,714 children at school your rebate for taking your own children out of the state system would be 61p per child.

I realise things have moved on a little but wanted to address the point that Academies are not allowed to have a selective policy for admissions...

Whilst it is true that they are bound by state guidelines re non discrimanatory admissions based upon socio economic status or potential acdemic achievment ,they do have more control over their admissions and crucially EXCLUSION decisions. This means that there can be much discrimination 'by the back door' if you like.
For example- Children can be excluded for minor uniform infringments, I have first hand experience of this being used in a wholly negative way; a deliberate engineering if you like to not allow those in you cant afford the unifortm and to get rid of those they do not actually wish to be in the school for a nonsical reason like uniform when in fact the real reason IS academic/social selection.

*nonsensical

Trixie, many of the faith schools do have wonderful outcomes. Much better than many secular schools. Partly indeed for the reason outlined by TheCoalition.

This of course is naked discrimination against people who are not Christians. Christian children, and children whose parents are prepared to have them taught myth as fact, in order to get a better education, have a massive leg-up in this country.

It discriminates against all people who believe that religion is best kept at home, against all faiths who are not Christian, and against the largest proportion of the community, the non-believers.