to not teach my DS any English

[DewinDoeth]

Ok, moved from another thread as it seems to have got people going!

DS is two and speaks quite a lot, but only in Welsh.

I live in a Welsh-speaking community, I'm a native speaker and Welsh is my first language (in fact I'm a lecturer in Welsh lang&lit), my entire family are Welsh. DS attends a Welsh medium nursery 2 days a week, and is cared for by my mother 2 days a week. And me the other days! None of the carers speak English with him.
My DH has learnt Welsh to near-fluency, and only speaks Welsh with DS: it gives DH a chance to improve (slowly, with an nonjudgmental speaker ) and has given him a massive confidence boost when it comes to it.
I am not teaching DS any English at all, and I never speak English with him. DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh. It's how it was with me and my English is of a very high standard (no doubt there will be grammatical errors in this post now - but I have an Oxbridge PhD so it can't be all bad).

PILs are not Welsh, live 250 miles away, and have expressed sadness that 'they can't communicate with him'.
They learnt to say hello and thank you in Nepalese when they went on holiday, but despite knowing me for 10 years and my family for 6, they have never learnt any words of Welsh at all, not please or thank you, and say it's pointless because it's a dead language, and it's not an useful language.

Wahwah, I think it is untrue that Englishness is everywhere. A version of Britishness that has little to do with the culture of English culture is everywhere as is a lot of English speaking US culture, but actually bringing a child up as English or partly English is rooted in the traditions of their English family or wider English community, if the child has either of those things.

Which is not to say that the OP should bring her child up as partly English. It is a personal decision for her and her partner. That is complicated by the importance of supporting Welsh culture, which is not comparable to the examples given on here of bilingual children from German/English families, as neither of those languages or cultures have been under similar political pressures to Welsh.

For all the pleas for understanding of "English" culture, I don't know a single English person who can define for me what "Englishness" is.

Maybe the Dad doesn't want to bring his child up with English as his culture. Surely it is up to the parents to decide?

I don't wish to define English culture. That's too broad - for me, it's more personal - it's about conveying, in your own language, the memories, stories and songs that were part of your childhood, and passing them on to your child.

But that's just me

Sais is a derivative of Saeson, stemming from the word Saxon.

English is a derivative of Aenglisc, stemming from the word Angle (of Anglo-Saxon).

It's just a word.

It's by no means a definitive expression of English culture but Watching the English by Kate Fox is a good read.

Naetha how neatly you prove the point that being fluent only in Welsh will be detrimental to the child as he mixes with his English family.I would feel the same about any child being brought up in Great Britain who didnt have at least a smattering of English as early as possible[not at the expense of the Welsh of course].

Mind you, a lot of the Welsh people on this thread are feeling got at (despite protestations by the many that we is issue is not about speaking Welsh at home, but about the exclusion of the GPs), so maybe we English can suck up the odd dig.

Also there are a lot of 'English' people who move to Wales and send their children to Welsh schools, identifying as Welsh I'm more Irish than I am Welsh but I still feel partly Welsh because I spent some very formative years there. And this thread is inspiring me to revive my sadly lacking Welsh! Anyone want to help me?!

It's getting repetitive because we don't have an answer about the 'real' issue, which is about the ILs and not the language at all. I think everyone agrees bilingualism = good, protecting and encouraging minority language = good, the weird thing is the absolute refusal to engage with the grandparents on their level (even though they're also being unreasonable). The OP could be the bigger person here....except she isn't.

Every speaker of a language who feels that their language is at threat from a more powerful (in that community) language probably has the same feeling individual Welsh speakers have. The differences are purely that Welsh is geographically restricted and not as prestigious as some others. Welsh speakers in Wales can't compare themselves to, say, MmeLindt who's bringing up English/German children abroad without that community support. The pressure there isn't political, it's about the prevalance of the 'other' language, so I think there is a comparison tbh.

On the English culture note I agree with jamie, personally, and it's why I don't feel I'll be able to speak to my DC in French.

It's passing on funnily little family jokes and idiosyncracies, words and phrases which are important to you which don't translate into a different language.

pranma: Naetha how neatly you prove the point that being fluent only in Welsh will be detrimental to the child as he mixes with his English family.

Sorry, how did I do that exactly?

frakkit - I totally agree with you. I'm not getting at any of us for being repetitive. The real issue - which the OP has not addressed, is the in-laws, as you say

singsinthebath - I can suck it up. As I mentioned, I have my own burdens, being of the Essex culture

' who knew that the Welsh language was so controversial?

I don't think that the Welsh language is at all controversial and I can't think that anyone has said that he shouldn't learn Welsh from birth -it is the fact that he is half English, and being held back in English, that is controversial.

I don't think that fact that she doesn't want PIL having him for an afternoon would be in the least controversial, if it wasn't for the fact that Welsh grandmother gets 2 days every week. There is a first class and second class grandparent here-I hope that OP realises as mother of a DS -that she is the future 2nd class Grandma (especially if DIL is foreign and not interested in the Welsh side).

jamie is this you?

Half schmarf.

He has been born and brought up in Wales, he speaks the language fluently, and can talk to both of his parents fluently in his native tongue.

He will learn English, he just can't speak any currently, although he probably understands it quite well.

With the language issue aside (which is a minor issue - the time between him being able to speak anything, and being able to speak English is minimal) the whole PILs issue is to do with distance and familiarity. Remove the dotted line between England and Wales and you remove the issue. Replace "Welsh" with "Northern" and again, no issue.

Mountain, molehill, end of.

OMG sings - v much like her. Mind you, she's a slaaaag and her tits are well mingin

Yeah Neatha

But what happened to multiculturalism in this instance huh? The OP is being exclusive and for what - to give her ds a headstart in Welsh. And as you say the time between him being able to speak at all and being able to communicate in English is minimal - does does this really then give her ds a huge boost in Welsh?

My ds has very odd English because only two of his relatives have English mother tongue - but so what? He'll sort it out later.

To me the fact that my ds can communicate with so many different people and is comfortable with everyone far outweighs an early language delay. And it's important to me that ds can communicate with dh's family and I certainly don't expect them to learn one word of English, particularly mil.

I find this all a bit exclusive and language is possibly being used to marginalise the 'foreign' relatives here. The DS doesn't suffer obviously but I think the OP gets more out of this than anyone.

Weegiemum, if a culture can be neatly explained in a paragraph or two it is probably already dead.

"I am planning that my MIL will be the one to speak to our child in Bengali and teach him/her that. She lives a 5 hour flight away, but as DH is happier speaking English there is really not much choice. I was thinking that if she visits twice a year, and we visit her twice a year (where there will be lots more Bengali spoken by others too), our child will learn as children learn languages so fast. Am I being hopelessly over optimistic? "

Sorry, but I seriously doubt that your child will pick up more than a few phrases that way. The 'little sponges' thing unfortunately is a myth an oversimplification, which neglects how much immersion is needed to keep true bilingualism going.

Jamie I think you'll find the look is enhanced if you can display a little touch of right nipple like she does.

Sorry about the hijack but really I think it has all been said now.

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(that's me drawing a line)