to not teach my DS any English

[DewinDoeth]

Ok, moved from another thread as it seems to have got people going!

DS is two and speaks quite a lot, but only in Welsh.

I live in a Welsh-speaking community, I'm a native speaker and Welsh is my first language (in fact I'm a lecturer in Welsh lang&lit), my entire family are Welsh. DS attends a Welsh medium nursery 2 days a week, and is cared for by my mother 2 days a week. And me the other days! None of the carers speak English with him.
My DH has learnt Welsh to near-fluency, and only speaks Welsh with DS: it gives DH a chance to improve (slowly, with an nonjudgmental speaker ) and has given him a massive confidence boost when it comes to it.
I am not teaching DS any English at all, and I never speak English with him. DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh. It's how it was with me and my English is of a very high standard (no doubt there will be grammatical errors in this post now - but I have an Oxbridge PhD so it can't be all bad).

PILs are not Welsh, live 250 miles away, and have expressed sadness that 'they can't communicate with him'.
They learnt to say hello and thank you in Nepalese when they went on holiday, but despite knowing me for 10 years and my family for 6, they have never learnt any words of Welsh at all, not please or thank you, and say it's pointless because it's a dead language, and it's not an useful language.

don't know if anyone has raised this (as don't have the time to read whole thread). But from a language development pov, if you allow access to two languages (ie have someone- maybe dad? speak to him in english) you will be gifting a great benefit to your son. There is a lot of research to show that bi-lingual children develop a increased propensity for learning a langnuage (by which I mean a third language) over their non bilingual peers. This advantage is conveyed even if they drop one of the original languages. Although research has shown that initialy bi-lingual children are a bit behind their peers (in terms of vocab etc) they clearly develop an increased ability in later life (probably becasue our brains are so plastic at this point). Why would you not get dh to speak to him in english to encourage this?

Several posters refer to distinct English and Welsh culture/heritage, let's be honest there really isn't a vast amount of difference between either. It's not like we're comparing British and Chinese culture/heritage for example.

OP's DC will be fully bilingual and will not be in any way at a disadvantage educationally or socially now or in his future.

I agree that this is absolutely about OP's relationship with PIL, and that the language barrier is being used as excuse/tool to damage the GP's relationship with DC for whatever OP's motives.

OP's DC is quite lucky he can support the Welsh rugby team and the English football team, best of both, just like my DC's

over 600 posts now... who knew that the Welsh language was so controversial?

Hettie, as has been said by myself and numerous other posters, there is no question of the OP's DS not being bilingual. I fully agree that bilingualism is an enormous advantage, studies have shown that it can help a child be good at maths and all kinds of seemilngly unconnected things. But all children in Wales will learn English at some point, the issue is at what age. Given that the English langauge is so prevalent, even in strong Welsh speaking areas, many parents (including OP and her DH) choose not to introduce English until the child has a strong grounding in Welsh as a first language. This is very unlikely to be to the detriment of the child's English language ability 5 or 10 years down the line!

It's nothing to do with the Welsh language, it could be any language. This child is not bilingual.

Talking about cutting off your child's nose (not even her own) to spite it's face.

ok helyg,

but can you not see how this affects the PIL's and would be quite isolating and hurtful to them. it's not really an argument about the Welsh language, more of attitudes and control.

But the child will be bilingual!!!

I really can't understand why people are not getting this!

Most of us are getting this, helyg. If it were not for the grandparent angle in this particular case, then I would be wholly behind the OP.

helyg

you sre still not addressing what everyone seems to be more intererested in - the relationship and attitude of the Op to the PIL's. Would you honestly say you would be perfectly happy with the situation as described if you were the GM - can't have a day out with PIL's while MIL gets lots of one to one time? can't properly communicate with GC - they may be dead by the time the child is fluent so problem will be solved anyway.

Why are you so focussed on the language point only?

helyg - I get it. It's nothing to do with Welsh

I would think that the fact that the PIL live so far away and presumably don't see the child that often would be more harmful to their relationship.

The child is 2. Many 2 year olds don't speak a lot yet anyway, communication is through more than just speech. I have experience of many children who enter pre-school settings at 2.5 knowing nothing of the language that the setting uses, who still communicate perfectly well with staff and other children there. The PILs could surely communicate with him?

Also it would help matters if the PIL were willing to learn a few phrases in the language that their GC uses! Rather than writing it off as a dead language and offending their DIL.

I wouldn't have sent my 2yr old on a trip that far with someone that they didn't know very well. Regardless of whether they spoke the same language as my DC. So I can see where the OP is coming from on that point too (although there are probably many ways of working out that problem).

What bothers me is the complete lack of understanding people have shown on this thread as to what life is like in Wales. My children are not thick because they have spoken Welsh from birth, and nor am I. No child in Wales is going to be monolingual in Welsh so that is an absoloute non-issue. Some of our DC may choose to only use Welsh in their adult life, that is their choice as much as it is for them to move out of Wales and only use English. But they are all being given the choice long-term. This doesn't however mean that a 2yr old in Wales needs to be able to speak English!

helyg - you are right - those were silly things to say, but only a couple of people said them

Helyg....Obviously your POV is clouded by your defence of the Welsh language. OP's husband needs to grow a backbone and a large dose of loyalty to his parents and a huge amount of patriotism to his own heritage.

And you're wrong, a of an English man does need to speak English because half of his family are English.

a child....

What I really really have a hard time with is - English-speaking father, caring for his son, choosing not to sing nursery rhymes or speak to his son in any way in his mother tongue. I do not get it.

YANBU
English is everywhere. Get the welsh in now, while you can.
I live in Japan and speak only English at home with my children. DH speaks English to them and we speak English to each other.

At the age of 2 her English was stronger and Japanese non-existent more or less.
Fast forward to now: she's three and her Japanese is overtaking. It's just everywhere.

I'm sure, even in your Welsh community, the English is pretty prevalent, signs, adverts etc.

I speak Welsh too, I'm really that I can't really pass this onto my kids. 3 languages is too much and I can't risk her not speaking English at all. I might phase it in later.

x post posie

It will not damage the relationship with the PILs. At all. If they think it will they are being controlling.
The child will be bi-lingual.
The OP is the mother.I am so sick and tired of people telling mothers how they should raise their children; media, grandparents, gurus, nosey people on the street. It's her child and if she's decided that she will make her house a Welsh-only zone it's up to her

I agree Altnikum

My DCs see their grandparents (my FIL/MIL), who live in France in France once a year, sometimes twice. This has been since they were babies - 10 years in all. We visit them for a fortnight and sometimes (not much over the years), they come over.

In no way are they the lesser grandparents

Helyg, I do appreciate the point you are trying to make it. It is extremely important that the Welsh language thrives. There are three times as many Welsh people as there are Icelandic people and nobody now would dream of suggesting that Icelandic people spoke Danish or another Scandinavian instead of Icelandic.

I have a friend who is Welsh and has given her child a Welsh name. None of our friends pronounce it properly and all moan that it is too difficult to say. It is no more difficult to learn than a range of Irish names live Niamh that became popular in Britain. So I do think non-Welsh people can be lazy about Welsh.

I think it is perfectly acceptable for the OP and her DH to have Welsh as the dominant cultural and language influence, as the child lives in Wales and Welsh culture is exposed to more threats than UK English is. But the child still needs to have exposure to English family culture through her English family, as this is totally different and often at odds with learning about any culture through media exposure.

Sorry, there are ten times as many Welsh people as Icelandic people. I was being a bit dim with the maths.

The problem is, you see, is that Welsh is a minority language slap bang in the middle of a country that speaks the number one international language. YOu can learn English by osmosis in most countries thesedays, so definitely in the UK. Welsh is a dying language that needs to be actively preserved. The child will learn English, sooner rather than later.
Does everyone who is reccomending the English realise this important difference between Welsh and English.
The PILs are just being controlling if they're dictating something so silly. Lot's of 2 year olds don't even talk. By 3 she'll be speaking English, no doubt.

X posts Milly