to not teach my DS any English

[DewinDoeth]

Ok, moved from another thread as it seems to have got people going!

DS is two and speaks quite a lot, but only in Welsh.

I live in a Welsh-speaking community, I'm a native speaker and Welsh is my first language (in fact I'm a lecturer in Welsh lang&lit), my entire family are Welsh. DS attends a Welsh medium nursery 2 days a week, and is cared for by my mother 2 days a week. And me the other days! None of the carers speak English with him.
My DH has learnt Welsh to near-fluency, and only speaks Welsh with DS: it gives DH a chance to improve (slowly, with an nonjudgmental speaker ) and has given him a massive confidence boost when it comes to it.
I am not teaching DS any English at all, and I never speak English with him. DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh. It's how it was with me and my English is of a very high standard (no doubt there will be grammatical errors in this post now - but I have an Oxbridge PhD so it can't be all bad).

PILs are not Welsh, live 250 miles away, and have expressed sadness that 'they can't communicate with him'.
They learnt to say hello and thank you in Nepalese when they went on holiday, but despite knowing me for 10 years and my family for 6, they have never learnt any words of Welsh at all, not please or thank you, and say it's pointless because it's a dead language, and it's not an useful language.

Fuck off TSC (tongue firmly poked out and 2 fingers raised)

hobnobs - you are a screaming example of someone from a minority having a huge chip on your shoulder. As someone from a minority who also often have a huge chips on our shoulders it's ridiculously blatent.

And most people from other countries bend over backwards to learn english. actually, as it is the international language for business and socialising. So yes, many would be at a disadvantage if they couldn't speak it. Someone said earlier that they don't really need english as they live in a welsh speaking community and work etc with welsh speakers. Talk about limiting your options if all you spoke was welsh.

Why do I feel that if the international language most used was French or Hindu instead of english, then this whole language tdebate wouldn't be an issue.

Ok, - hobnobs - you are being perverse

I like the sound of perverse! And I love chips! Haven't screamed for a while though

Na - I'm with hobnobs.

Interesting point by MillyR, though, and one I hadn't considered. Do the OP and DH consider DS to be Welsh or half-Welsh, half-English? No judgment or opinion on this, but curious.

'my entire family are Welsh'

So says OP in her first message-ignoring the fact that it is no longer true! She has a much be=igger fasmily. DH didn't come alone, we know he came with parents ,he most likely came with cousins, siblings, aunts, grandparents etc-OP now has an extended family who are not entirely Welsh.

She only has one question to ask herself-
Would she be happy if her DS settled in a foreign country with a foreign wife who doesn't see the need to include her, because 'everyone she knows speaks her language' and OP can jolly well wait until the DC learns it at school'. I suspect she wouldn't like it. (most especially for her grandchild to be told he isn't Welsh). If she wouldn't like it then she shouldn't do it to others.
If, hand on heart, she doesn't mind her grandchild thinking he is fully Dutch, Italian whatever and the Welsh/English part doesn't matter and she doesn't need to converse, but has to watch maternal grandmother having a close relationship then I guess it doesn't matter. I would be very surprised however if she could honestly say it was OK with her.

I think we may have set a record for number of posts without response from the op .....

OP doesn't care how many people tell her YABU-she doesn't think so.

given the venom she's probably gone to patagonia - they speak welsh there too....

Hobnobs, I may want to marry you. We can have fish and shoulder-chips at the reception...

OP I appreciate that you want him to have Welsh as his first language, but any parent lucky enough to be bi-lingual is, frankly, bonkers not to pass the skill/opportunity onto their DC as soon as possible, while it's still easy. He may not want to listen in a few more years.

What if he turns out not to be as clever/diligent as you at learning English for himself? If he is to have a decent chance in the wider British (or indeed global) job market then he needs fluent English. And the more fluent the better. No time to start like the present.

Welsh is bugger all use in the wider world, as well you know, and you will be severely limiting his horizons because of a point of principle. I doubt he'll thank you for it.

Haven't read all of this, but I don't think the OP is BU.

Her ds will have no option other than to learn English, and will speak it fluently - he'll be surrounded by it as he grows - via tv and other media as well as people he meets.

On the other hand, it's very, very difficult to switch languages once you're used to speaking to someone in one language.

I'm a fluent Welsh speaker, dh has made half-hearted attempts to learn it - understanding everything but his speaking skills are rudimentary.

Both dc are fluent Welsh speakers, but English is what we speak at home because of dh and because I didn't make enough of an effort (as the OP and her dh are doing) to make Welsh the language of the home. I regret that.

And in response to "bugger all use in the wider world" - if you decide to stay in Wales it's a lot of use - many jobs give preference to Welsh-speakers.

Beyond Wales, both my dc have picked up Spanish and French quickly, and I'm sure that's because of their Welsh-medium education - Welsh has a lot of Latin in it for a start.

Finally, it sounds like the OP does have other issues with her PIL, but what's to stop them speaking English only to their grandson? At the age of two he'll learn it easily from them, and that will be the language he'll associate with them.

What's to stop them, msripley, is that the OP doesn't want the PIL to take the DS to the zoo - largely because they don't share the same language!

sorry, that sounded arsey towards you msripley.

must step away from this thread

Can we try to keep the zoo stuff to the zoo thread and make this one about language choices? Getting v confusing.

no - because they are linked, IMO. And because the OP wasn't getting the answers she wanted on the zoo thread, IMO she started this one which is all a big smokescreen, IMO

Just looked up the zoo thread - that's a bit of a red herring, isn't it? - the GP won't change his nappy.

Not really fair, IMO

what's not fair?

And I'm pretty sure the GPs will change the nappy if the OP is not there - otherwise they would be complete loons.

(Mind you, if they are complete loons I will have to eat all my many words on this matter)

Not fair to bring zoo trips and nappy changing onto a thread about language. Not fair to link to another thread so relentlessly. Not good form.

Excuse me - the OP started it. Not me. It is entirely relevant

I am going to bed now

The whole language issue is a red herring-it is about control and exclusion.

We are not going to agree on that PiscesMoon.

If OP can tell me that she doesn't mind a future grandchild being brought up in Italy with a huge extended family, and no one telling him he is half Welsh, and she can't converse until he learns English at school-then I will agree that she isn't being unreasonable. I doubt it! She will be a little hurt when he spends whole days with other grandparents but she can't take him to the zoo for one afternoon because she doesn't speak Italian-she must be.