to not teach my DS any English

[DewinDoeth]

Ok, moved from another thread as it seems to have got people going!

DS is two and speaks quite a lot, but only in Welsh.

I live in a Welsh-speaking community, I'm a native speaker and Welsh is my first language (in fact I'm a lecturer in Welsh lang&lit), my entire family are Welsh. DS attends a Welsh medium nursery 2 days a week, and is cared for by my mother 2 days a week. And me the other days! None of the carers speak English with him.
My DH has learnt Welsh to near-fluency, and only speaks Welsh with DS: it gives DH a chance to improve (slowly, with an nonjudgmental speaker ) and has given him a massive confidence boost when it comes to it.
I am not teaching DS any English at all, and I never speak English with him. DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh. It's how it was with me and my English is of a very high standard (no doubt there will be grammatical errors in this post now - but I have an Oxbridge PhD so it can't be all bad).

PILs are not Welsh, live 250 miles away, and have expressed sadness that 'they can't communicate with him'.
They learnt to say hello and thank you in Nepalese when they went on holiday, but despite knowing me for 10 years and my family for 6, they have never learnt any words of Welsh at all, not please or thank you, and say it's pointless because it's a dead language, and it's not an useful language.

"and its both parents, Dad is choosing to talk welsh to his son as well!!"

I don't know if the OP has stated that, but it's only her side of the story we have on offer.

I'm not going to insult the man, as he's no way to reply (unless he goes to the web site and registers... there, not so hard) but I do question why he is willing to upset his own parents on this issue.

Oh FGS now Radio Cymru and S4C are in for a hammering!

Ffermio is probably quite interesting if you are involved in farming, as many Welsh speaking people are. DH watches it quite frequently, and I watch it if I think there will be something interesting on it. The YFC Ceredigion rally would interest me as it is local, and although I was never a member many friends are/were.

There are lots of good programmes on S4C... 4 Wal, Dudley, Byw yn yr ardd, Cwpwrdd Dillad, Y Sioe Gelf etc. DH loves Fferm Ffactor and I watched the first series as one of the contestants was from DH's home village. We always watch the rugby coverage on S4C, and DS1 has been watching the cricket recently too. The DC watch Cyw and Stwnsh more than any other kids TV. Last week there was wall to wall coverage of the Urdd Eisteddfod, which was local to us and interesting as the DC are Urdd members and I help out with craft in their school for the Urdd competitions.

It all boils down to what you are interested in!

IME (and of course not in every case) paternal gradnparents can struggle to have the same closeness to GC as maternal grandparents often have. Also it is likely that the GP's who live furthest away often have a less close relationship. Add to all of this the fact that the GC, DS and DIL all speak a different language to the GPs, and you're in a tricky situation!

It seems to me that OP is entirely unsympathetic to this. She almost seems to blame the ILs for living 250 miles away. As someone mentioned AGES ago, presumably they have not moved anywhere - their son is the one who has moved. IMO the OP's DH needs to make more of an effort to integrate his two families. If he doesn't, the one who is going to lose out in the long run is OP's DS.

FWIW, my GPs lived about 200 miles away (my DF moved when he met my DM), and neither my DP's or GPs made as much effort as they could to keep a close relationship. My DM had a very strained relationship with my GPs. As I got older, it made me very uncomfortable, and I must admit that I blamed my DM to an extent - I thought she should have risen above my GPs akwardness IYSWIM. OP - don't make the same mistake! My GPs are dead now, and although in my 20s we had a good relationship, I really regret not having a closer relationship with them when I was young.

"But why? Why on earth should the OP have to speak to her child in her second language in her own country?
The grandparents do need to learn at least some welsh - they have a welsh speaking grandchild"

I never even thought about expecting my in-laws to learn German, nor would I expect my own parents to speak English to my daughter.

"DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh."

I wonder how often there are opportunities to hear it from visiting English speakers ?

I know I am out of touch considering things like Camberwick Green and similar (and don't know when I might have seen that - TV didn't start until 4:30pm when I was young, and I remember "missing out" on Monty Python as a teenager, because our TV didn't have BBC 2 !)

So, thinking back to the daft noises from the Tele Tubbies, and presumably a host of other TV shows aimed at those aged below 5, I would hardly count them as being likely to educate very much, if the parents are not reinforcing anything "learned" by themselves making suitable sentences to interact with their DS.

Ooh and Wedi 3 is good for when I'm ironing mid afternoon (not that I get much opportunity to iron now that this thread has taken over my life!)

Well put WidowWadman - sounds like you felt both languages had "equal billing".

Obviously, your DS should learn Welsh, as he has a Welsh mother and lives in a Welsh speaking community.

However, I think, as he has an English father, he should learn some English too.
As far as I know, it is inadvisable for your DH, not a native Welsh speaker, to speak to your DS exclusively in Welsh.
It wouldn't make any difference whether you were living in Italy or Pakistan.

I also think you are being v unfair to your PILs. You don't seem to like them much. If I was them, I would also feel sad and excluded. They probably already feel excluded a little by living 250 miles away (I assume that your DH move to Wales to be near you and your family). Why can't you teach your DS some basic English words to aid the situation?

I think YABU and lacking in empathy.

Why doesn't the DH speak English to the child so he can have the best of both worlds.
It is so much easier to learn a language under 5 and you are relying on the TV to teach him

OP
This is jack to do with language.

You do not get on with your PILs...fair enough, they have been insulting to your country, your language, your heritage. They sound a bit odd (nappies, not babysitting etc) but then, lots of us have weird PILs.

Your PILs do not really like you. They see you as a woman who has quite possible "stolen" their DS away from his culture (which, for whatever reason, they do not value highly), they see their DS choosing to speak this other language (which they think is dead, their problem, but that's where they are coming from) to their DGS. They see you being inflexible on the language issue becuase yours is a minority language and can easily be uindermined. And to top it all, they can't take their DGS out to the zoo because it's too far, they can't communicate and you are very PFB about your DS.

Let's stop talking (right now, it's running into hundreds of posts) about this in terms of language. It is a complete red herring.

QUESTION: do you want your PILs to have a positive and warm relationship with your DS or not? If so, show them how to change a nappy, explain to him how to ask for a drink in English (or get your DH to do so), get a decent car seat fitted in the back of their car and let them go.

If you do not, then fine. That is your right. They might be nutters. But please don't dress up your animosity for your DG's parents in some very long, very self-righteous stuff about protecting your heritage.

DH's parents not DG's parents

my Dad isn't english, but only spoke English to us at home. As a result i have had no relationship with his family (after being a toddler when communication is done in lots of ways). all we can do is smile and point. I felt cheated of a relationship with half my family.

Your son is too young to choose for himself, but I am at a loss as to why you would want to put barriers between him and his half his family and his heritage. Would you be so relaxed if it was your family he couldn't communicate with?

Victoria Scrumptious fuck off you have no idea what you are talking about! Shall I start taking the piss out of your culture? I wouldn't be so pathetic.AND FOR THE LAST TIME HER DC CHOOSES TO LIVE HIS LIFE IN WELSH!!! It's not that odd thousands of us do it!

I haven't read the whole thread but I think it is totally crazy not to encourage the English language in your DCs. Being fluent in English opens doors for anyone, and if you actively prevent this, you are holding your children back from reaching their potential.

How many times does it have to be stated that:

• The OP has no problem with her DS learning to speak English.

• The OP and her DH speak English together, so their DS has plenty of opportunity to hear both languages.

• Her DS will learn English, as she did despite being brought up in a Welsh speaking household.

I agree that the OP is overprotective and should let her PILs take her DS out, she has taken on board several of the suggestions on the other thread.

All this nonsense about denying him his heritage. My DC have no idea about Scottish or British heritage. Or German heritage for that matter.

"All this nonsense about denying him his heritage. My DC have no idea about Scottish or British heritage. Or German heritage for that matter"

Really? I find that rather sad.

Ive heard it all on this thread now! I'm stopping my children from reaching their full potential quick phone social services. And think all of those poor people who are dr's, dentists, scientists, lawyers etc etc who have English as a 2nd language just think what the poor little darlings could have achieved if they hadn't been so held back.

What do your DC know about their heritage then?

And how old are they?

If it calms the situation down, I can confirm that English Language regional TV in Wales is also shit .

at VictoriaScrumptious.

D'you know what? I think Springwatch is shit. I hate Antiques Roadshow, and Ffermio ain't my thing either.

So I don't watch them.

I watch Caerdydd, the gritty uber cool drama on late on s4c. I watch Hwyrach, the arts and culture programme. I watch Bandit, the programme that follows the indie music scene in Welsh.

We have programmes to suit every taste on S4C, just like you get in English. You sound threatened by the fact that there is a living, breathing Welsh culture- We're not about keeping old traditions alive, we're about evolving, and that's why we're still here. If you find the fact that there's a Welsh media "shoving it down people's throats", turn off the tv, turn off the radio. But know that as you do, Welsh is getting stronger, garnering more and more support here. Non-Welsh speakers are seeing the benefit of bilingualism, and are requesting a Welsh education for their kids- applications to Welsh schools have gone through the roof in recent years.

And just a thought there are millions of people on this planet who never speak English at all..oohh poor little things how deprived they must be. Just think how many doors would have opened to them if only the poor backward little thing could only speak English. I think you'll find that speaking English is most certainly not the be all and end all of everything.

hobnobs - you are being deliberately obtuse.

Sorry my terribly poor English means I have no idea what that means

I think this is tricky. While I agree that there is no reason for a young Welsh child to learn English, this child isn't Welsh.

So it really comes down to how soon the Father thinks it is acceptable to drop his own culture and have their offspring solely adopt the culture of the other parent and the country of residence.

In the OP's position I would expect the child to be brought up with lots of exposure to English culture, and I don't consider tv to be representative of English culture or that watching tv is an adequate experience of anyone's culture. It would be like me claiming that my child could be brought up half American by watching Hannah Montana.

But it is an individual choice. Some people lose their ethnic background in one generation. Some keep it for two, three or more generations.