to not teach my DS any English

[DewinDoeth]

Ok, moved from another thread as it seems to have got people going!

DS is two and speaks quite a lot, but only in Welsh.

I live in a Welsh-speaking community, I'm a native speaker and Welsh is my first language (in fact I'm a lecturer in Welsh lang&lit), my entire family are Welsh. DS attends a Welsh medium nursery 2 days a week, and is cared for by my mother 2 days a week. And me the other days! None of the carers speak English with him.
My DH has learnt Welsh to near-fluency, and only speaks Welsh with DS: it gives DH a chance to improve (slowly, with an nonjudgmental speaker ) and has given him a massive confidence boost when it comes to it.
I am not teaching DS any English at all, and I never speak English with him. DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh. It's how it was with me and my English is of a very high standard (no doubt there will be grammatical errors in this post now - but I have an Oxbridge PhD so it can't be all bad).

PILs are not Welsh, live 250 miles away, and have expressed sadness that 'they can't communicate with him'.
They learnt to say hello and thank you in Nepalese when they went on holiday, but despite knowing me for 10 years and my family for 6, they have never learnt any words of Welsh at all, not please or thank you, and say it's pointless because it's a dead language, and it's not an useful language.

My dd could count to 10 and speak simplified mandarin at 2, and we are not Chinese.

So it is wrong for them not to make the effort to learn Welsh to speak with their grandchild but it is all well and good for you to make no effort to teach your child English to speak to them

Dewin - earlier on this thread, you said >>> No, the language was the issue of this thread.
I get on ok with my PIL - there are things they do/attitudes they have which I'm not happy with, and likewise I do things/have attitudes they're not happy with. My PILs are coming to stay with me next week (which is when the zoo trip should be happening) and my problem - on the other thread - was not mainly of them having time alone with him, but him going further away with them (i.e. 1 hour away) than he'd ever been with anyone else, and the practicalities: nappies, and language.

You are contradicting yourself : on the other thread, you say the language is "the big issue".

And the nappies, IMO are a non-issue - I'm sure, if you were not around they would change a nappy - but you didn't answer that point on the other thread.

I'm beginning to wonder if your DH doesn't have much investment in ensuring his parents become close to his son, either.

But,RunawayWife -he will learn english.Soon.All welsh children do.He is only 2 at the moment - DS had speech problems and neither set of grandparents could understand him for years - they managed to bond just fine.
This is not a set of parents refusing to teach a child a language,leaving him unable to ever speak to his grandparents.At the moment he speaks only welsh - in the next few years he will pick up english too.In the meantime his grandparents could make an effort to communicate with him,surely? They do not need to become completely fluent because very soon the little boy will know some english anyway..... sigh.

PuppyMonkey/LetThereBeRock - my impression is that DH isn't allowed on here, just as he isn't allowed to speak English to their DS, despite it being his first language and that of his parents.

MmeLindt - your situation is different, though, (a) because for you, speaking German was not as a learner, and (b) one assumes your parents were not an hour or three away to be able to 'expect' your DC to speak English to them, or to be in a position where your DC might stay the weekend with their English GPs.

I loved the OP saying "the practicalities: nappies, and language". Surely the OP can see that language is being made an issue because despite her fluency and academic achievements, she has chosen not to speak English to her son. (*) Therefore, she has chosen to make a problem of PIL DC communication rather than acting in a less "precious" way to make it a non-issue.

Yes, PIL may have some shortcomings in not learning Welsh, but in day to day life, they have no need to. I have no need to either, despite living in Wales, of Welsh parents, but brought up in England (where they lived for the bulk of their lives, my mother living in Weymouth during the early part of WW II and remaining in England for more than 50 years, later living in Somerset and Sussex).

While the "dominant" language will seep in, via TV or radio, and English will be used at a later time, it seems to me that the OP would prefer to do nothing to include English at home for the next 5 years if at all possible. I suppose that means they will listen to R Cymru if the radio is on...

(laughter here) R Cymru has broadcast plenty of English words untranslated, as Welsh is unable to adapt fast enough to modern life {I have only heard snippets of R Cymru, I tend to use it only from 0100 to 0500 to have a good FM signal broadcasting FiveLive, then might switch the radio on later in the day and listen for maybe 30 seconds before switching over).

(*) That's why I made flippant remarks about DH not being allowed on MN and so forth. Her DH is learning Welsh out of love and respect for her. She knows English, even if Welsh is her preferred language, yet there is apparently quite a divide between her and her PIL, which is perhaps being exacerbated by having no apparent wish for their DS to get exposure to English in a family setting - he'll hear slang and poor English on TV/radio compared with {hopefully} good grammar from parents.

But why? Why on earth should the OP have to speak to her child in her second language in her own country?
The grandparents do need to learn at least some welsh - they have a welsh speaking grandchild
I have not got the impression at all that the OP's DH is not allowed to speak english to his son,but that they have decided as a couple that as they live in Wales,in a welsh speaking community,they will speak welsh at home.Sounds perfectly reasonable to me...

my mum died fairly suddenly a year ago, my friend's dad died last week in a car accident (sorry for being depressing). All this waiting a few years to learn english and then communicate could always be too late - unless OP would really rather have no contact with inlaws.

AFAICS no one has suggested, even in passing, that the OP should speak to her child in her second language (except possibly NetworkGuy, although I think that even he is referring to the DH speaking English to his DS but referring to the OP because he has an over dramatic idea of her as some kind of Svengali to her DH's Trilby).

And the OP and her DH have not decided that they will speak Welsh at home. They speak English to each other, but the DH speaks in Welsh (his second language) to their DS. Which is fine, will not cause the DS's legs to turn green or his ears to drop off, etc., etc., but is unusual. Out of all the mixed-language couples I know I don't think I know any where each parent doesn't use predominantly his/her own first language with the DCs, whatever language the couple use between themselves.

The OP and her DH have chosen an unusual approach and that approach creates extra tension with her PIL. It's not evil or bad, and it's entirely their choice, and if my PIL referred to my first language as dead and backward I would almost certainly might be extremely inclined to deliberately piss them off in return. But it's a little disingenuous to claim that all the tension comes as a huge surprise.

Op is BU but it's really down to the OP's husband to worry about the english side of things and think about how this is affecting his parents.

Sorry,that "why" wasn't aimed at you,the secondcoming.
I thought that they did not see the grandparents often,because they live 250 miles away.Therefore they do not know the little boy very well,but want to take him for a long day out on their own.The OP is concerned about that.I didn't actually think the language was the major issue,I thought it was part of a "will my child be fine an hours drive away with people he is not very familiar with" issue.Not a "my child can't spend time with them because they don't speak welsh"issue.

scanty - I agree and I wonder if he doesn't have much investment in caring about that relationship

Poglesood - in the other thread she refers to the lack of shared language as the "big issue"

'But why? Why on earth should the OP have to speak to her child in her second language in her own country?'

Because her DS isn't Welsh-he is half Welsh and he will always be half Welsh. Where I live we have a lot of Welsh people, living quite happily, and on St David's Day they send their DCs into school in Welsh costume or wearing daffodils etc. They go out to the front and talk about it, they are very proud. They do this even if they have only one Welsh parent. No one teases them about it, it is very cosmopolitan here. I get the impression there is no hope of OP's DS celebrating his English part. If you have a DC who has a rich heritage, different from yours, it shouldn't be something supressed-it should be celebrated. Being able to speak the language is the start, especially if your mother is fluent. A 2 yr old picks up language quicker than a 5 yr old who picks it up quicker than an 11yr old. It is such an easy thing to do-it requires no effort at all.
It may be OP's second language, but it is her DS's equal language.

Yes,Proflayton - NetworkGuy did say "she has chosen to not speak english to her son" and that is what I was "why"ing at..
I realise it had totally escaped me that OP and her DH speak english to each other,though that makes sense now I think about it - I stand corrected!

I must go and do some parenting,not sure how this thread managed to suck me in for so long.

MmeLindt - your situation is different, though, (a) because for you, speaking German was not as a learner, and (b) one assumes your parents were not an hour or three away to be able to 'expect' your DC to speak English to them, or to be in a position where your DC might stay the weekend with their English GPs.

No, NetworkGuy. That is not correct.

a) The OP states that her DH is "near fluent" which I take to mean that he has as good a command of Welsh as I do of the German language.

b) My parents lived in Scotland so only a couple of hours flight from us and saw our DC very regularly, as did my PILs. My PILs learnt the words "milk, hungry, thirsty..." and my parents knew some German words. My parents both went to German classes, my mother even did Higher German exam.

I do take exception at the suggestion that it is odd to speak a foreign language with your child. Many people do it.

.

Teach him both!

Both Welsh and English were spoken in my home and I managed perfectly well to speak both

The OP does not sound like she is embracing the chance for her ds to learn English and the opportunities it may bring, but feels it is an inevitable negative occurrence.

IMHO the OP is trying to cocoon her ds and, by speaking only Welsh, this might force him to stay right where he is forever.

Speaking English is dangerous because it just might take him away from her.

MmeLindt - non-one has said it is odd to speak a foreign language with the child - and I've read every page of this blardy fascinating thread

It seems a bit weird that DH and OP speak English, DH and DS speak Welsh and OP and DS speak Welsh.
Does this mean that OP and DH are in deep conversation and DS appears and they switch? Or does it mean that DH can only manage Welsh at 2 yr old level and so he has to converse at adult level in English because he can't translate words like unconscious or sentimental but he can cope with 'would you like a drink?'
Genuine question?

i think its awful that you're not teaching him english - selfish, inconsiderate, restrictive. What happens when he is older and the tv (!!!??!) hasn't taught him enough? I actually thought this thread was a joke.

I would imagine that when OP and her DH met, he hadn't yet started learning Welsh or was very much at the start of learning. So they spoke English to each other. Once you start speaking one language to someone it is very hard to switch.

When I met DH it was through a group of friends who weren't Welsh speaking. So initially we spoke English to each other, as we were in their company. It has been very hard to switch to speaking Welsh, even though we speak Welsh to the DC! And we are both fluent, he spoke only Welsh at home and I spoke both from day one.

Similarly, I only ever speak Welsh to my work colleagues (it is work policy). It is very difficult to switch to speaking English to them if you are in a social situation where someone doesn't speak Welsh.

I was wondering that piscesmoon. It's great that the dh is learning welsh and can speak it well, but he will learn it better if he speaks welsh to his wife.

And english to his son, and then his son learns english from the most obvious source, and then can go out with his grandparents.

When my DS was 2 yrs old he was asking questions like 'how do bridges stay up in the middle?' It seems to me that even DH has a lesser relationship, unless his Welsh is at the level of a native Welsh speaker.